Interview – Extraordinary Nobodies

PopCulturePirates Gives Raw Perspective on Music, “The Creative Scene,” and Growth as an Artist

pcp

It’s impossible to not feel excited when meeting an artist with a clear passion for music. No lust for popularity, just a burning desire to be the best they can be. PopCulturePirates is one of those people, and a candid human to speak with. Pulling no punches with his perspective, it was a thrill to be able to interview PCP. We won’t hold you up on introductions, though, as this interview has been delayed enough as it is. Let’s jump straight to the meat.

EN: First and foremost, thank you for being a part of this! We have a bit of a tradition in interviews. We always start with asking the artist to write a little about themselves, because it’s always more genuine than anything I could ever write. So, if you don’t mind, that’s what I’m going to ask of you to kick things off.

PopCulturePirates: About myself? Hmm… I don’t tend to talk about myself often. Let’s see… I was born in South America. I currently reside in Dallas, Texas. I picked up guitar after graduating high school. I don’t really know what else to say without guided questions [laughs].

EN: [Laughs] We’ll just jump into it then! You mentioned to me prior to the interview that you are a part of a band as well, but what made you interested in starting the Pop Culture Pirates side project? Was it just a desire to explore different avenues?

PCP: Actually PopCulturePirates has always been my project since I began learning to write music. My band came together fairly recently, in relation to my solo project. If anything, you could probably get away with saying my other band is my side project (but not really). My writing started to be more directed towards what I would want to see live. Which is where the band came in. I wanted to be in a band all my life (even when I was still too lazy to even dedicate time to learning guitar). However, I started to learn to do everything on my own because when I actually wanted to join friends and other people’s bands, I would get rejected because of my lack of talent.

So, it was sort of a “I’ll show them, they’ll see. l can make music too.” Kind of thing. But the actual band, being part of a group of tight friends and playing music and hanging out afterwards, that was always sort of the dream. But with more people, more bodies and hearts, come more voices, more opinions, and more bullshit. So any writing that wasn’t generally accepted, or didn’t follow the band’s sound, I would keep in the backseat and develop those ideas whenever I had time.

EN: Do you feel that having the PopCulturePirates project in your back pocket from the very beginning helped your development a lot as an artist? Because it sounds like, since you were never forced to prematurely abandon an idea, that you were able to grow a lot more naturally and freely.

PCP: Even though PCP is my “solo” project, that really is just the identifying label I slap on anything I make that is somewhat guitar driven. So, to answer that question, yes, I think being Solo from the beginning allowed me to really explore anything I wanted and absorb everything I came in contact with, and make it my own instead of trying to mold it to fit any limiting “project” I could’ve been a part of.

EN: Right. So, instead of being like some side projects that have a clean cut distinct sound removed from the artists other works (like The ILYs are to Death Grips), PCP is more of a sonic scrapbook of ideas you didn’t want to throw away? I say side projects very loosely at this point, since you clarified earlier. I just can’t think of a better word.

PCP: I would flip the table and say PCP is my music and the band is my “group” project. But for the sake of not sounding pretentious, let’s just keep referring to PCP as my solo project. Also, I really enjoy Death Grips. There’s a couple bands that just ignite inspiration in me, and that’s one of them.

Anyway, I am constantly writing music, like all the time, not even joking. Some people might think I’m trying to sound like “oh look at me I got music coming out of my hands, and feet, and kisses” (Julian Casablancas reference, by the way) and some people might think, “that’s just sad, mediocre music is all this guy can do? Pathetic.” But whatever the people’s thoughts are, the fact it I am always constantly writing melodies and lyrics and stuff. I’ve got over 11GB of demos and snippets I’ve recorded and have backed up. So it’s not really like a scrapbook, it’s more like I’m sort of rationing out my creative output.

At one point the band was all that I was writing for, but the progress of four people learning songs and getting them tighter can only go so fast and agreeing on changes and ideas. I became frustrated (not in a bad way, i just felt like I had to keep going) so I went back to writing for myself (PCP).

Oh, man, it’s really not my intention to sound like a pretentious piece of shit. I want everyone that might read this to know what I aware of my creative capabilities, I know I’m not that good making music. Or, I don’t think I am, but I am constantly getting better and one day I will be great. And then maybe I will be a pretentious asshole, when I have the skills and discography to back it up [jokingly anxious laughter]!

EN: [Laughs] don’t sell yourself short either. On that note though, do you think the current DIY scene is the perfect sort of environment for an artist like yourself? There’s such a fascination with eclectic, homemade, music. And the stuff you release under the PCP banner definitely fits that. Whereas I think some time ago, it may have been harder to have that freedom.

PCP: I think for the laymen, or just casual listeners, it’s great. There’s so much variety, so much content, they’re happy to be thrown all this cool music. Today everybody is a musician and everybody is a producer. Like the lyrics on my single Everything Is Forever say: “…Everyone with a pen is a poet, and everyone with a canvas is an artist…” Anybody with a laptop can make a shitty recording and people go wild. I don’t know if I’m happy to fit in there, to be honest. If I could make way better sounding music I would. I would love to be writing for or working with huge bands like the 1975 (I’m not a big fan of them) or Arctic Monkeys, but instead I’m making weird Lofi diy indie pop goodness. But I’m hoping to get better. I do think my material gets more and more refined the more I do it. Maybe I’m just a slow learner.

But nonetheless, i am grateful and blessed to have received the attention I have. I am very thankful to people like you, taking the time to actually listen and recognize the work I put into what I do. And yes, now that that Lofi sound is what’s sort of “in” I am able to receive such positive response. In the past it would’ve probably been met with, “you sound like you just recorded through an 8-track, what are you doing with your life? Making the wrong choices obviously.” But I recognize I do have to thank the current DIY Lofi global phenomenon for even making it possible for me to reach as far as I have. I might not even be making music today if it wasn’t for it, i probably would’ve given up long, long, ago.

EN: I definitely understand what you mean, and unfortunately I think there is a crowd that uses that LoFi sound as a crutch. That being said, I think my interest in it is less as an aesthetic and more with the people in your sort of situation. Where it’s not LoFi for the sake of being LoFi, but it’s that way for the sake of actually being able to release music. I think there’s something beautifully genuine about that sort of never quit attitude. You know what I mean? Like, I would argue even acts like The Voidz carry that sort of spirit into more refined places. It’s not limited to LoFi.

PCP: I think Julian’s work has always carried that sort of grittiness, aside from his first solo and his Daft Punk collab. He has always tried to push that outlier music to the forefront. I guess Lofi can translate in many cases to rawness, which that in itself can translate to pure emotion through various states of sonic synthesis haha. I don’t know. I think you’re right. I think Lofi is a phase and it’s more important when it becomes forgotten and moved away from. It makes it so much more important. If you’re a lofi artist and all you do is lofi, i think that’s kind of dumb and takes away from it. Lofi is like the birth sound of one’s musicianship. It defines your beginnings, but if you’re doing Lofi because that’s what’s popular now, I feel it blurs the lines of what Lofi could mean in a musicians career.

I don’t know. I think I might be contradicting myself and talking out my butt. I think Lofi, like indie, shouldn’t be recognized as a genre.

EN: You think it’s more of a state of being? Like how you wouldn’t consider “clean studio recording,” a genre. It’s a trait of the music but not a genre.

PCP: That’s pretty much it. But I’m not mad about it, I just feel like that’s what it is to me. It’s all subjective I suppose.

EN: But, you would prefer if people took the nature of your sound as a reflection of where your career is and less as a reflection of what kind of music you’re trying to make. Would that be accurate? Say, in ten years. You’d rather look back on it like “these demos showed a lot of promise even though I didn’t have full studio access,” than “I used to be a lofi artist.”

PCP: Yes. But they would be demos really, they were final products that reflected my mental state, my physical skills, my financial level, etc. For everybody else it’s just a song but I guess for my it would be like “diary.” They would **not** be demos really. Like if you keep a diary, and you started when you were little and wrote on a crappy notebook; when you look back, it wouldn’t just be about what you wrote,It would also be the feel of that sheet of paper to the touch, the smell of it, the way it crumpled up, the teardrops, or blood stains, or food droplets, or anything and everything on it, it brings you back to that moment. You can “digitize” it and copy it into Microsoft word to save it forever and it would have the same legible content, but it loses the importance of what that original object was.

EN: I’m kind of understand more what you said earlier now. When you make LoFi a genre, it strips a bit of the intimacy the artist has with those older projects away. Right?

PCP: I think so, but pop culture takes anything it wants whenever it wants it. And this is not only evident with the topic we’re on but a lot of other things going on in the world that I’d rather not delve into.

EN: Is that sort of sentiment where the name PopCulturePirates came from?

PCP: Yeah, sort of. It’s like going against pop culture, being an outsider… Culture is so much bigger than just music and fashion. But that’s the theory, not the practice. I wish I would’ve been more strict with the ethos the moniker carries with it, but I ended up making music that could be considered “pop” right now anyway. Now I’m going against myself, and what my moniker stood for. I was younger and wanted to make something that would be huge, bigger than myself. Something that could mean something philosophically, politically, socially, that people could relate to. But it never got to that, I was never able to get to that point. I think I was simply limited by my most basic musician skills. And I just couldn’t create something that big. But I’m not mad nor disappointed, it’s just a little embarrassing admitting that, but beyond that, it’s whatever.

EN: I think the name is one of those things that’s vague enough to move past your original intentions though. Don’t you think there’s a lot of potential there for listeners to interpret it in various ways?

PCP: There is, but people don’t really pay any attention to the names. I feel even musicians at this point don’t even care about the names either. Porches? Bleachers? Quilt? Even Car Seat Headrest (I’ve read the reason behind the name, but still). Those are all stupid-ass names in my honest opinion, but I love all those bands. Except Bleachers… Bleachers is “meh” to me. But Porches is amazing. Car Seat’s song “Vincent” is my latest favorite song. Quilt blew my mind the first time I heard them. But people might think that of PCP too, it has 3 very “evoking” words. I’ve been trying to push my single to a few people, and some reactions to just the name have been “that name really turned me off, I almost didn’t listen to it because of the name.” At the same time some others say that it was a great name choice, as it makes you guess what direction it’s going to go, as opposed to naming the project something mundane like “Chair.” I have no fucking idea what that means, nothing comes to mind if someone would mention a band called “Chair,” you know? But with PCP I feel like those 3 words in different combinations call to mind very different things. I realize that the “pirates” could make people think of hard punk or gypsy folk. But nonetheless, I like the name, it meant something at one point, it’s catchy, and interesting. A bit original. At least I think so.

Though, now that I think about it. “Chair” would be a very interesting name. Poking fun at all the stupid names out there right now. Might make it an album name at some point.

EN: At the end of the day though, you want the music to speak for itself, yeah?

PCP: I’m sure everyone would agree to that, yes.

EN: We touched a bit on a few acts that inspired you, but who else did you listen to that really made you want to be involved in creating music? Inspirations, so to speak.

PCP: I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but The Strokes were the ones that made me go, “hmm… that’s cool. I wanna try doing that.” I hate admitting that because I feel they inspired pretty much everyone who listened to them, sort of what they say about The Velvet Underground. They might’ve not been as commercially successful, but every single person that heard them went home and started a band. They were very influential. That’s where the “dream” of starting a band came from, after watching their first tour documentary, “In Transit.” They looked like they really loved one another and they were brothers and best friends conquering the world together. That shit was beautiful to me. That’s what I wanted. But finding a band was very hard so I ended up just honing in on “solo” songwriting, because that’s all I could do and wanted to do, at that point.

Other than The Strokes, I would say John Mayer really got me into exploring more complex guitar playing and into a little bit of blues. Blues is cool and all, and I respect it for what it is, but you can play any combination of notes in a blues scale and it will sound good. That makes it too easy and dull to me. There’s many obvious musicians and bands that made a career out of the blues, but I feel like now it’s just a learning phase. “Okay I learned to play bars, chords, and all. Now I will learn the blues scale, and then proceed to jazz music theory, and so on.” You know what I mean? I feel like I totally deviated to talk shit about the blues, but no disrespect, blues is the foundation. I love it, but I want more.

Other than that… I had a big Dave Matthews Band phase. That would be all I would listen to for like 6 months straight. His guitar playing was pretty influential. I still warm up by playing the “Satellite” riff which really makes your fingers stretch. Another band that really influenced me was an Argentinian band called Soda Stereo. I grew up with their album playing in the background pretty much 24/7.

EN: We’ve had Julian Casablancas come up a few times now, and reflecting on what you said, I have even had people in other genres mention him to me before. Aside from the brotherhood element of watching The Strokes, do you think his magnetic artistry just pulls people into music? Like for myself, I always looked up to him as someone unrestrained. It was refreshing.

PCP: I really dislike talking about The Strokes because it’s so unoriginal to do so. It feels like everyone is just in on the Strokes band wagon. I know that’s not the case, they are in fact THAT influential. They all have that rock and roll swagger. And Albert Hammond Jr., his first two albums are amazing, he is a great songwriter. But I feel like he kind of fell off with his third releases up until this last one. His last album, Francis Trouble, it’s really, really, good. And I just saw him live about a month ago. I was blown away at his stage presence, the sound, and the songs. But I could talk about them for days, but I’d rather not. Citing them as inspiration is overdone and uninteresting in my opinion. I’d rather say something like… Grimes totally inspired me to be a little weirder with my music. I actually have had a crush on grimes for a bit. And now she’s dating Elon musk. That blows my mind. I can’t compete with that. That was the whole reason I really started doing music. So I would seem cool to her and we could hang out and stuff, y’know? Now I can’t do that. How do you top Elon musk? You don’t. You can’t.

EN: So, you’d totally support a Grimes song being the national anthem of the first Mars settlement, even if she doesn’t notice you and fall in love? [Laughs].

PCP: I’m 100% on board with that. But I’d rather, you know, be noticed? Maybe co-write the anthem? With Elon’s approval obviously, I wouldn’t do anyone dirty like that. ‘Specially my boy, Elon. By that point in history he might already have developed a personal travel size death ray and is willing to use it on anyone who opposes him or gives his girl the googly eyes (for example: me).

EN: Let’s talk about Everything is Forever for a minute, because to me that song feels like you really took a massive leap in all artistic facets. Like, don’t get me wrong, I adore Death, The Kid. There’s just something about Everything is Forever that feels so complete… How do you feel about that track? Do you think it marks a new step forward in your songwriting?

PCP: To be honest, “Death, The Kid.” Is a step down from “Kanye” because “Death” was just a collection of demos going as far back as 2010 that I uploaded because it hadn’t been a productive year for my music. I didn’t really have much to show, so I decided to just upload this collection of old tracks. Aside from the two new songs I wrote that year which were Bad Luck and Kirito’s Dream. You can probably see more of a relation between those two and Everything Is Forever.

But I do like Everything Is Forever very much. I don’t think it’s too much of a leap for my style. But I do love the clash I was able to manage between very refined, Hi-fi guitars and cymbals against the lo-fi kick, snare, and vocals. The repetitive ending I initially intended on extending it for over a minute longer to emphasize the “Forever.” As in to make people say “damn, this part lasts forever” and then recognize that and the relation to the title of the song and be like “oh shit! I get it!” But then I thought to myself, nobody would probably pay that much attention to it. So I kept it shorter, but still kind of long and repetitive. But I don’t think it’s necessarily a new step, I think if anything I might’ve kept the songwriting on a leash a bit. I’ve been slowly finding out that, as cliche as it sounds, less is more. But then I went in and threw shit on its head by keeping that out-of-left-field outro.
There’s a song on the album coming out called “Where Is The Destruction,” and another called “Medallion City,” I feel like both of those challenged my songwriting a little more than EIF, each in its own way. Though, Everything Is Forever is a very emotional song, nostalgic summer vibe, sad crushing lyrics, the energy gets carried through in a very flowing fashion with its arrangement. It’s interesting. I like it. I’m proud of it.

EN: Apart from the other couple of songs you mentioned, does your new album carry that nostalgic vibe throughout? Or is it more varied?

PCP: It definitely has more variation.

EN: Does your musical process change at all when you know that you’re working on songs intended to be released on an album? I ask because I tend to get mixed answers to this, and it’s interesting. Some seem to feel their process becomes more intensive, others say it doesn’t change at all.

PCP: Not really. Usually I just write and write songs, when I have about… I don’t know, 7-11 good songs (which are usually picked from maybe 20 or so) I then “package” them as an album. For this last album though, I was approached by Breakwood Records (sweethearts) and they heard Everything Is Forever and decided to help me put out the next album. We sort of agreed on an imaginary deadline for me to provide all the songs for the LP. I ended up writing about 6 of the songs from it in like three months maybe. I did think it was going to become more intensive as I had never had any sort of “pressure” to finish songs but all that changed was me making more time in my day to day life to write music. That was it really, other than that it was sort of the same.

EN: How do you feel about doing something with a label? That’s super cool. And also, I should say, congratulations! Even with the internet, getting noticed like that is no small feat.

PCP: They’re a small independent label from Canada that just began, they’re the coolest and sweetest. But to be honest the coolest thing about it is not really being able to say “oh look at me, I’m on a label,” but instead having people that really, really, listen to my material and are critical, and honest, and interested in my music. They believe in what I do, and that honestly is a beautiful feeling.

EN: I can understand that, that’s a great attitude to carry into it. Nobody will show you more support than an independent label that loves you, and I truly believe that. On a funnier note, I am also from Canada. How does it feel to have a strange destiny bond with the Canadian music scene? [Laughs].

PCP: Dudeeeee, to be honest it’s awesome. I’m starting to feel like Toronto is replacing New York as the music city to be in, in my mind. Plus, some of my favorite musicians are from there: Dirty Beaches, Crystal Castles, Broken Social scene, Metric, and so on. And of course, who can forget, Grimes.

EN: If you had the chance to form a band composed of any living musician, who would you have in there?

PCP: If I could I would clone myself and play in a band with 4 or 5 me’s. Because anybody I would pick is probably going to be way more skilled than me, to the point where I would be the weakest link. But with 5 me’s, we all would be on the same level of everything and on the same page, plus no egos because it’s really just me, you know?

EN: You’re smart. You’re really smart. You avoided Meg White-ing yourself entirely with one of the most unconventional answers I’ve ever received. Good man [laughs]. But actually, that’s got me thinking. You said earlier that you started by learning guitar, but what was the process like learning other instruments in order to complete full songs? It’s not easy to learn multiple instruments, never mind learning how to properly work them into a piece of music.

PCP: In high school everybody had to pick an instrument, I picked drums. The instructors said all the drummer spots were taken, so I chose saxophone, they said those were taken too so they put me with trumpet. I hated trumpet then. I appreciate it now. But I don’t play it anymore. Guitar… it’s a weird story. My mother was in a band and she always had a guitar in the house I would pick it up for 3 days every 3 months and decide I wanted to learn. I never did. I got instructors that I’d go to once and never again because they would send homework and I’d rather just play The Legend of Zelda. It wasn’t until my senior year of high school where I was like, “alright, let’s do this.”

On bass I get by with just what I know on guitar. And drums I learned because one of my roommates in the college dorms mentioned he used to play drums and had an electronic drum kit. I showed a song i had done and tried to convince him that we could totally start a band so that he would bring the kit to our dorm. He eventually did and that’s where I started learning how to drum. I would often skip classes if he had already left just so I could play. Since they were electronic drums nobody would complain. It was awesome. Drums are the funnest instrument but also the hardest to learn in my opinion. I have good timing but syncing your movements, that was tough. I learned by playing along to LCD Soundsystem songs. Because the drumming isn’t overly complicated but it goes, it goes, it goes, guillotineeeee [laughs]. The drummer on LCD just keeps the beat for all the 7 plus minute songs. I love LCD, man, one of. My favorites. James’ urban poetry destroys me emotionally.

EN: Are there any others you want to add to your arsenal in the future? Maybe throw a flute solo on a PCP track in the future? Or…like, bassoon?

PCP: I have a deep fascination for sampling and the way hip hop music is and has been constructed. I will incorporate that probably into my upcoming songwriting. So instead of learning an instrument, I would most likely sample it and make it weird. But if I definitely had to choose an instrument to learn. I’d probably say violin. That instrument is so beautiful and versatile.

EN: Have you ever watched some of the artists who do live sampling on stage with an MPC, or whatever? Some of those dudes turn that into an extremely delicate art. How’d you pick up an interest in the art of the sample?

PCP: I have another project where I make experimental “beats” that I lease to small rappers. A lot of my money for gear has come from that. My love for sampling came from having an obsession with New York producer, Blockhead. He is one of my all time favorite producers. Dan the Automator too.

Aarabmuzik is a freakin’ god using an MPC live. His finger drumming is almost mathematically quantized. He’s crazy.

EN: Is there anything you fear musically? For yourself, I mean. A direction or attitude that you hope you never start to take on.

PCP: I fear running out of ideas. Of good ideas. Sometimes when I don’t write music for a while, when I come back to it it’s as if I forgot how to write songs, so I go through a couple ideas which end up in the trash because they sound terrible and I get a little fearful thinking “maybe that’s it, maybe I’ll never write anything decent again, I’m all washed up.” It sounds dumb, but that’s something crosses my mind often.

EN: What sort of advice would you give to others who’ve felt that way? I know when I’m working on my music projects, it’s a regular fear of my own too. Hell, Rajin (my other writer) has watched me have near meltdowns thinking I’ve lost my touch. What do you do to move past that worry? Just keep grinding?

PCP: As cliche as it sounds, yeah. Just keep doing it until you either find your next good idea or until you truly can’t find anything else and give up. But the latter should be if you’ve been going at it for like a year maybe? And nothing comes out, then maybe then you’re all dried. Or maybe not. I don’t know [laughs].

EN: In all seriousness though, do you find breaks from writing music to be essential to the creative process?

PCP: I think sometimes you do need breaks physically, specially after hours and hours of writing, or mixing. Your ears get shot and you stop hearing things as they actually are. Your ears get tired. But maybe you do need to let that “creativity bank” refill every now and then. So I guess short answer: yes.

Also, if anybody has any other advice as to how to deal with the fear of drying up, hit me up. There should be a better way to deal with that which I haven’t yet learned.

EN: Is there anything that you have learned along the way that you wish you had known when you first started writing music?

PCP: The actual process of learning all I know, however long it took, that’s part of the whole artist thing. If I knew then what I knew now, the journey of becoming a musician would not be as exciting and accomplishing. I honestly hate referring to myself as a musician or an artist, I feel it is very pretentious. Not to give a smart ass answer, but truly looking back, I wouldn’t share any information with myself. I would watch myself go through all of it all over again. Over the same mistakes I went through and through the same victories I had.

Although maybe having the contact information of a few people earlier on would have helped [laughs].

EN: So you’d leave a little book of phone numbers and emails, but still let yourself experience those natural growing pains? [Laughs]. I don’t think that’s smartass at all. Every struggle, every misstep, everything makes you who you are as an artist now.

PCP: Yeah, I guess. Not to get philosophical or anything, but yeah, every pain you experience makes you who you are today. So every hassle and hurdle with respect to music would make you the music maker you are today.

EN: What should people expect from you as an artist in the future in terms of releases? I know you said you were working on an album to come out under the PCP handle. Any plans for a band album release sometime?

PCP: With the band we’re actually recording at the moment. When you asked me if there was anything I had learned that I wish I would’ve know. In the beginning, I was tracking vocals at that exact time. I remember pulling my phone out and seeing your question while singing. I don’t think people shouldn’t expect anything from me. But I hope to be able to just improve and put out better and better material.

EN: And is that how you would like people to think of you? An artist with humility, but also a burning desire to continue improving every day?

PCP: Not really. Maybe in the long run, after I die, it would be cool if I don’t get remembered as a piece of shit. I honestly think my humility can easily come off as pretentiousness, somehow. But, I would just like for people to really like what I do. That’s pretty much it. Hopefully someone can see beyond the surface of the music and really get the substance of whatever I’m trying to say in that specific piece. But, as long as people just like it, I guess I’m ok with that. But my main, main, goal would be to cause in someone what other great artists caused in me.

Bambi of FilthyBroke Recordings Gives Her Perspective on Being a Woman Behind the Scenes in the Music Industry

by Dustin

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The music industry is a interesting world, and not always a friendly one. This is true from the top all the way down to the grass root level. Many on the outside are completely unaware of everything that goes on outside of the spotlight, leaving it to those who work in the shadows. Fortunately, sometimes these people share their experience. Today’s interviewee is one of those people. Bambi, the designer-slash-promoter-slash-wonder-woman at FilthyBroke Recordings, was gracious enough to lend us an interview discussing all the wonders of working at a do-it-yourself record label; moreover, she speaks on being a woman in a male-dominant scene, and how it’s shaped her perspective on all things music.

Read the interview below, it’s worth it.

EN: As usual, I’ll ask you to give a brief introduction to yourself. Whenever you’re ready. And we’ll just jump off from there.

Bambi: I’m Bambi, I’m originally from the Bay Area; currently living in Seattle, Washington. I work with FilthyBroke Recordings.

EN: Did you have any experience working in music before, or has FilthyBroke been your first adventure down that avenue?

Bambi: I started working with FilthyBroke in fall of 2016. Prior to that I worked for a few years in music in various capacities, put out a release with a former friend, some light managerial stuff (basically answering emails), building & running the website, shipping, that kind of stuff. Concurrently I worked part time at an entertainment V.C. in Oakland, which invested in local venues, recording studios and the like.

EN: What capacity do you work in with FilthyBroke? I know you’ve done a bit of design, but I suppose I’m curious of what your day-to-day is like when working with the label.

Bambi: Yup, I do art/design work for releases and video bumps. My day to day label responsibilities vary. I’m responsible for updating and maintaining the website along with my homie who built the site, instagram, art for promos, and so on. Michael and I spend a lot of time on FaceTime listening to music and brainstorming for upcoming releases, merch, and other projects and figuring out how to make it happen. Currently we’re preparing for his upcoming OMLT release in February and I’m handling the merch end. We will be releasing some T’s & hoodies along with his new EP.

EN: I imagine the creative freedom is nice when working in that sort of environment, but does it ever feel like there’s very little room for mess-ups with it being a DIY style label?

Bambi: FBR has been around almost 4 years now, but we are still a very small label. We are still trying to carve out our own niche and grow. The smaller you are, the more detrimental mistakes, even small ones and especially financial ones are. Not only that but we don’t sign artists, we work with them on a project by project basis. As Michael noted online the other day ”labels need artists way more than the other way around” and we often build friendships with the artists we work with and we want to do right by them because we respect them and appreciate we couldn’t continue without them.

EN: So you guys feel like establishing the friendships helps to make sure everyone stays happy? Because that’s a very unique and personable approach.

Bambi: I’m not saying we have to be friends with every artist we put out. A mutual respect and belief in the music is more than enough. Just noting that often we get to know people while working on releases and it sometimes develops into friendships that extend past the project. But I do think working with people you vibe with and relate to on a personal level makes for a better experience all around.

EN: Does the vibe that Michael has with FilthyBroke Recordings suit you as a person better than your previous experiences in music? Having worked with both of you myself, I know the label cares a lot. It seems like it would be fun to be involved in (and it has been for me).

Bambi: For sure. Working with someone that listens to your input and respects your opinions and ideas is always the ideal, which I feel like Michael does. I know people say you shouldn’t get into business with friends or family and while it definitely can and has gone badly for me previous I still think getting money with friends is the best kind of money to get.

EN: Something I’ve noticed when networking is that women are fairly absent behind the scenes in music. Aside from artists, often when I’m contacting a label or manager they’re men. You’re actually one of the few I know with active involvement behind the scenes. Do you feel that women are underrepresented in that facet of the industry?

I know that’s sort of a blunt question, but it’s something I’ve noticed. It’s quite odd.

Bambi: Underrepresented, yes absolutely, but not necessarily for lack of involvement. Particularly at the indie level there’s a shit-ton of wives, girlfriends, sisters, and female friends behind the scenes answering emails, shipping merch, planning shows, hitting up record shops and listening to the same unfinished song 6,789 times because a high-hat was added. You know, just trying to help make it happen. Shit, some of these dudes likely going on tour with mom’s Amex (I stole that mom’s Amex bit from Michael).

I want to make it clear I’m not saying all artists do this by any means, but I do think is fairly common place, especially at the beginning and end of careers. I have no issue with it, supporting the people around you is important. What I do take issue with is the lack of credit. I don’t give a shit if all they’re doing is packing and shipping merch, if your homie did you a favor you’d shout him out; but, I see some of these motherfuckers out there acting like they do all this shit on their own or down-playing (either during or after the fact) the contributions of other, especially woman, which is a foul. And yes, I’m speaking from experience.

It’s one of the reasons I was very hesitant when Michael asked me to work with FBR. It took me a few months of me ‘helping out’ and him continually demanding I be credited for my work to really be like, ok I guess we’re in it to win it now. Oh, and you know what? He actually pays me. Even if it’s just a few bucks, I get my cut and I get it in a timely fashion. Amazing.

EN: Do you feel like this has created sort of an environment of complacency among those not being credited? As if they feel they’re just supposed to help however they can and ask for nothing back, particularly among the supporting women in a label or artists life?

Bambi: I don’t think it’s complacency. I’ve had to learn to take credit for my work (I didn’t even realize people received art layout credits until last year) and that expecting/taking credit isn’t asking for accommodation it’s just getting what’s due and what I’d give anyone else I work with.

I don’t think everyone does it intentionally, but I do think that it’s speaks to a larger mentality. As more artists move away from labels and sell independently I think most have realized how important their fans are. But, that also means a lot more reliance on fans for help beyond just buying music and going to shows. I’ve seen supporters help get people booked, do cover art, and web design work, etc and barely get a thanks much less paid. End of the day, gender issues aside and regardless if you work in music or not, I think it’s important to appreciate and acknowledge the people supporting you and if you can’t do that at least give them credit on their work, especially if you aren’t paying them. You meet the same people going up as you do going down.

I suppose to change shit the burdens gotta be on both parties. Basically, don’t be an asshole and regardless if you’re getting paid demand credit on your art, web designs, beats, etc.

EN: Do you have any advice for individuals who, likes yourself at one point, might be struggling to work up the courage to actually ask for their due credit? I realize that’s sort of open ended, but I imagine there are hundreds if not thousands in situations where they aren’t receiving their just dues.

Bambi: For me it wasn’t that I was scared to speak up and more just being naive. I kinda fell into the music business, I never intended to be here, so for a long time I just assumed if I’m not getting credited then it’s not work people typically get credit for. And that’s on me for being a dumbass expecting most people wanna do right by others and not properly educating myself. Once I realized that wasn’t the case shit changed. So do I guess my advice would be pay attention and get informed.

EN: Something semi-related I wanted to speak with you about is bullying in the industry. Particularly from a gender issues perspective but also just in general. I was speaking to an artist recently who expressed sadness over how many of her male peers seem to be quick to try and push her around. Would you say this is something prevalent in the industry even at the Do-it-Yourself/Underground level?

I ask because I know bullying is an issue of great importance to FilthyBroke as a label. Such as the anti-bullying fundraising compilation record you guys curated (which I will link to here).

Bambi: Full disclosure here, I am a bully. I’ve dealt with bullies my whole life and I learned very young if someone keeps fucking with you, you fight back. Fight fire with fire so to speak. I know that a lot of people don’t agree with that way of thinking and think you should always try to be the bigger person. I admire those kinda people but I’m not one of them and I don’t want to misrepresent myself.
I think it happens a lot at all levels. I can’t speak from a female artists perspective, but I’ve seen it happen from a third party view. As well as there’s definitely been a number of instances for me personally where I’ve felt like I was being talked down to, dismissed or pushed around from either male artists or males working in other aspects of music. But it can be a difficult thing to stand up for yourself, especially to people who may be more successful in music or who’s work you admire. Not only that but the music world is truly very small, with a lot of business and friendships mixing. I think (hope) things are changing but it’s still very much a “boys club” type mentality in a lot of ways. As a woman I think when you confront someone in any work environment you run the risk of getting labeled ‘difficult’ or ‘crazy’ or ‘emotional’ or (insert any code word for bitch).

I don’t blame anyone for being hesitant or feeling too intimidated to speak up as it could have the potential to damage working and/or personal relationships, as well as, current or future opportunities beyond the person you’re calling out.

EN: I don’t really want to condone or condemn what you opened with, but I almost feel like there are certain situations where bullying the bullies is a necessary evil. I’m sure there are plenty of people who just won’t stop, even if the victim tries to be the better person. Right? I know that was the case when I was a kid. It doesn’t seem to change much as adults. Though I can’t speak on the music industry specifically.

Bambi: Apologies, I think something got lost in translation or I misspoke. I don’t condone unprovoked bullying. What I meant was some people have the capacity to rise above negativity, but I find that very challenging and in opposition to my natural tendencies. I don’t start shit but I’ll end it.

EN: Oh yeah, I got that part of it. I didn’t think you were condoning it by any means. I suppose I was just thinking aloud that sometimes rising above the negativity isn’t enough to make the situation cease. I know a lot of people who try to and then slowly get sucked back into being picked on. And it’s really a shame.

Bambi: Agreed. When you encounter people that do fucked up shit I think most decent people struggle between rising above (which is often in their own best interest) and fighting against in hopes that no one else has to suffer the same bullshit.

EN: Do you think the general public would be surprised at how nasty individuals in the music scene can be to each other behind closed doors? I imagine some people’s heroes are absolutely despicable people when in private. It’s scary.

Bambi: I don’t think anyone is surprised about how low and despicable people in the music industry can be. I do think they’d be surprised by some of the people perpetrating though. I think it’s pretty common that when some is really into an artist’s music that they get a feeling that they know or understand them on a more personal level. Often they feel they have faced similar challenges or feelings as themselves. So it can be a hard pill to swallow that someone you look up to, someone who has the emotional empathy to convey musically what you feel could possibly be a shitty person.

I mean how could a dude who has the ability and courage to see corrupt shit in the world and call it out possibly steal money from someone they work with? How could someone who’s written songs about love and heartache possibly mistreat a woman? How can a dude who raps about street shit possibly be a coward or snitch in actual life?

EN: Has experiencing some of the industries underbelly made you appreciate those that actively try to be transparent in themselves more?

Bambi: Yes, for sure. Like I said I was very hesitant to get involved with FilthyBroke after my past experiences. But Michael was persistent and proved himself trustworthy and I’m glad I took the gamble because it’s allowed me to work with some awesome folks and restored my faith in people quite a bit. Big shoutouts to Balam Acab, Molly Drag, HotScience, and of course yourself who have all been great to work with.

EN: Do you feel like your taste in music has expanded or evolved since you started working alongside Michael at the label? Because I imagine you hear a ton of things you may not have been exposed to otherwise.

Bambi: Absolutely. Left to my own devices I just listen to rap. So working with FBR I’ve grown to appreciate and enjoy a much larger variety of genres and musicians that I would not have discovered otherwise. So it’s been good! Although, sometimes Michael plays real weird shit I just can’t vibe with…like Ween.

EN: I support all good hearted potshots at Michael and especially at Ween in this interview.

Have you found that listening to different genres has made you appreciate things about rap even more too? I spoke about this with my other writer before. We both feel like branching out into other things has helped us appreciate and understand what we like about hip-hop even more as well. It’s weird that way.

Bambi: I get what you’re saying. I mean, honestly? Sometimes after listening to other stuff for a couple hours it all starts to blend and sound the same to me. Where as I can listen to hip hop exclusively for weeks on end and never get tired of it because there’s such a broad spectrum. It’s just personal taste, what speaks to me, I personally have yet to figure out the specifics of why though.

EN: On another note, I was looking at the cover for the new Hot Science project FilthyBroke was involved in releasing. That cover is phenomenal. And I know that you were the one behind that, And a bunch of other really cool visuals the label has put out. When did you start getting involved in the design aspect of things?

Bambi: I loved drawing when I was a kid, my grandma was big into music and art and I grew up around a lot of graf dudes so I’ve always been around creative types. But it wasn’t until getting involved with FBR when I started doing CD and j-card layouts. As I learned and got better at using adobe, I moved into promo flyers and videos, etc. And finally this latest Hot Science cover art, I’m hella hyped how it turned out and he was awesome to work with.

EN: That’s awesome, I think you definitely have a knack for it. How did the concept for the Hot Science cover even come together? It looks like layers of paper cutouts. I’ve never quite seen anything like it before.

Bambi: Thank you Dustin. Michael came up with the general concept, to be honest I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to pull it off, it’s definitely the most involved out of all the projects I’ve done so far. I hand drew the illustrations separately and then scanned them into adobe to layer them. I also did the animation in photoshop because I wanted it to look kind of like stop motion.

EN: Fuck, that’s definitely what it was reminding me of! It’s like one of those stop motion paper-figure films, but like, the Tim Burton version of one. In album cover form. Did you enjoy tackling something more ambitious like that?

Bambi: Nice, that’s the feel I was going for. It’s a dope album and I wanted to do Sam’s (Hot Science) music/work justice and make sure it was reflective of the vibe he was going for. Again, he was great to work with and really down for whatever so I absolutely enjoyed the project. Whenever I take on something new it’s always nerve racking, this is was no exception. But I am really happy with how it turned out.

EN: Is design something you hope to keep being a part of going forward with the label? Has it become something you’re excited to keep working at and improving in?

Bambi: Definitely. It can be somewhat stressful to do creative work under a deadline but it’s fulfilling to do art for a purpose and not just fun. Also I get paid for it which is nice. Every project we do I learn new skills, I’m hoping to get to the point where I can do proper videos as well.

EN: Have you done much video work in the past or would that be a much newer avenue of expression for you? You mentioned doing a bit of video bump work, but not to what degree.

Bambi: Nah. I’ve done little 30/60 second promo bumps. Just saying, I’d like to eventually get to a point where I have developed the skills to do some full on video work. I don’t know if I’ll ever get there, was just speculating on long shot goals.

EN: Have you further investigated the use of Craigslist Missed Connections as the modern preferred artistic medium?

Bambi: [Laughs]! (I should’ve seen that one coming). I still check it out from time to time. And, yes, it’s still entertaining and heart breaking as ever. Some people really bare their souls in the MCs, and some of their soles are creepy as fuck.

EN: [Laughs]. Okay, but in all seriousness: if you could design album art for any artist in the world, who would it be and what sort of concept would you approach them with?

Bambi: Damn, that’s kinda tough one. Kool Keith would be ill, could do some weird illustrative shit, like Animalia, Graeme Base style but with more adult content (obviously). AC/DC would be cool as fuck also, but I’ve got no idea what I’d do on that one

EN: I think we’re at the point of rapping this up now, if there’s anything else you’d like to throw in then now would be the time to do it!

Bambi: I just want to give a huge shout out and thank you to all the people over the past year and a half that have been supportive of me both personally, and with the label…you guys are fucking awesome. To you, Dustin, thank you for offering me this opportunity and for being a gracious and patient interviewer. Finally, to anyone that thinks I was speaking on them in this interview, I probably was. And if that’s an issue for you, I don’t have anyone blocked online, my phone number hasn’t changed and you know where I live..any time motherfucker.

EN: Thank you as well.

S. Reidy Discusses Until the Darkness Comes, Mental Health Concerns, and Putting in Work

by Dustin

sreidy

Not long ago, we were approached by an artist with an album – a regular occurrence as a music blog. Something was different this time though…the music had a different feel to it. It was genuine, unique, and encapsulated the alternative hip-hop vibe without derivation. After a few weeks (or a month, sorry Shawn) of sitting on the album, it became apparent that a review simply would not be enough. When an up and coming musician drops something as fully realized as Until the Darkness Comes, the most important things that can be said will only come from the artist in question. That’s why we’re here today. To discuss a project, among other things, with an emcee following their own vibe and nobody else’s.

Ladies and gentlemen, S. Reidy:

EN: First and foremost, I’d like to invite you to introduce yourself a little bit. A bit of a self-bio for readers who might be unaware of you as a person. Who is S. Reidy?

S. Reidy: S. Reidy is a rapper from Norman, Oklahoma. He likes to blend hip hop, emo, and indie music, and has opened up for acts like The Palmer Squares, Milo, Open Mike Eagle, and even bands like Walter Etc. He’s also remarkably handsome and has held hands with females on many occasions.

EN: Before we jump into discussing your album, I did want to ask something about coming from Oklahoma. It’s not a state really known for its hip-hop scene. When you were growing up and being exposed to music, what sort of rap was it that you were hearing most predominantly?

S. Reidy: When I was in 7th grade that’s when Soulja Boy was popping off, and man I hated it. I was way more into My Chemical Romance and Senses Fail and stuff like that. But around 10th grade Lil Wayne dropped the song 6 foot 7, and that was the game changer [laughs]. That song was so full of jokes, and personality. Subconsciously I think when I started discovering that, I was destined to become a hip hop artist.

But you know, to answer the question, I was just exposed to all the really popular music. Some dumb study was made recently saying “Rap just took over Rock as the most popular music”, but I honestly feel like it’s been that way for almost 10 years. Especially when that’s what a 16 year old boy from Oklahoma was most exposed to.

EN: You were exposed to popular rap, but do you feel like the other genres you were into really helped shape your sound too? You mentioned My Chemical Romance and Senses Fail, and I know guys like Open Mike Eagle consider their outside influences (They Might Be Giants in his case) to be like, equally as important as the rap they grew up on.

S. Reidy: Oh yeah, absolutely. You can definitely hear a similar brand of white kid angst in my music as those bands [laughs]; however, my sound was really shaped by other genres I listened to once I graduated high school and started listening to more wordy and nerdy artists like Neutral Milk Hotel, Sufjan Stevens, Walter Etc., and stuff like that. Oh, and definitely Pedro the Lion too.

EN: With that in mind, do you feel like coming from somewhere without an established hip-hop sound gives you a bit more of a blank canvas when approaching your own music? Because to me it seems as if you’d be pretty removed from influences and pressures to sound a certain way to fit with the scene.

S. Reidy: It definitely was a strange advantage, but honestly I feel like I’d be making this music no matter where I came from. I’ve always been the kind of guy to do something different just for the sake of balancing out what the norm is.

EN: When I was listening to your album I noticed that – but it also felt very natural to you. Some people seem to really force trying to be “different” just for the sake of it. How important is being genuine in music to you?

S. Reidy: Its everything to me. It’s cliche, but when you take time to really mediate on who you are, and what makes you yourself, everything starts to fall in line, because at the end of it all it’s very clear that you’re the only person who can be you. I didn’t mean to turn the interview into an after school special there… but what are you gonna do [laughs]?

EN: So, when someone gets a chance to listen to Until the Darkness Comes, there’s no playing. It’s just an honest to goodness part of Shawn Reidy being put on display?

S. Reidy: Oh yes. It might not be exactly who I am as person at this very moment, but it’s all feelings, stories and emotions I’ve dealt with the past 2 years or so.

EN: Almost like reflecting on a diary?

S. Reidy: Man… I’ve never thought of it that way, but that is exactly what it is. Someone on YouTube reviewed my album and called it musical meandering, which I though was also super accurate [laughs].

EN: Did you set out with the intention of having the record be an open book about yourself, and experiences, or is that what comes naturally to you when writing lyrics?

S. Reidy: You’re nailing all of these questions right on the head [laughs]. I absolutely do, and that goes into what I was saying earlier about how if you can truly sit down and block out all the worlds expectations of you, and just be yourself, you’ll never have a problem trying to be unique.

EN: Is there a particular aspect of the album that you’re most proud of as an artist?

S. Reidy: Oh dude, by far what I’m most proud of is the distinct sound I was able to come up with on this record. All my other projects sound so scattered as far as a cohesive sound goes. This project is my first that really feels like an album.

EN: Do you feel that being hands on with all stages of the album allowed you to achieve that cohesion? Was that the reason you sought to be the driving force behind all stages of its development, from production to lyrics?

S. Reidy: Oh for sure. I recommend it to everyone. Don’t wait for other people and influences to come and change your sound up. Listen to everything, and engulf yourself in it. Find identity in the music you listen to, and don’t just listen to one or two genres. If you love music, then love music, you know? And then you don’t have to rely on a producer or another musician to help you craft a sound. At least that’s what’s worked for me [laughs].

Just also make sure you get hella opinions from your friends and family, because you don’t wanna get too inside yourself either. Find a happy medium. That’s what I’d recommend.

EN: I’m curious about what your construction process was like for this album. Did you approach creating beats with topical ideas already in mind, or did you produce first, and then figure out what would fit?

S. Reidy: Most of these songs I wrote the best first, and based it on a feeling. After the beat was done I wrote all the lyrics to the song in like 10 minutes or so just to get my rawest response I could from the track, and I would clean it up from there. I’ve been writing songs that way for awhile now.

Guess I kind of just gave away my secret recipe [laughs].

EN: Now, obviously we can’t tell people how to enjoy art – but would you encourage people to approach your album as a full listen rather than just picking and choosing songs to play?

S. Reidy: I don’t know if I would encourage people to, but if you like digging into albums there is more than enough here to really sink your teeth into. If you just wanna hear my popular songs you can do that too though [laughs]. But you’re not gonna get the most out of the album that way.

EN: Popular songs aside, what’s your top three songs off the album, and why?

S. Reidy: Woah, jeez that’s hard…I’m sure this answer would change in thirty minutes too [laughs]. For now though, I wanna say: “Galavanting” because of visceral production and the cool lyrics, “Blackout” just because I feel like it’s uplifting without being corny, and probably “Nobody Nose” because of the guitar and the sweet hook.

EN: Is there a particular lyric you’re most fond of on this record? One that maybe stands out to you as some of your best work.

S. Reidy: That’s also so remarkably hard…when I think about it long enough, I think maybe the line “bagged eyes screaming in your pillows till they drip/ Till you find one day you weren’t crazy to begin with.” I think if you had to describe the album in one line it would be that one.

EN: It’s lyrics like that which made it feel to me like you had a lot to say, particularly in the realm of mental health. We spoke about it a bit beforehand, but just how much does it mean to you to be able to speak freely and candidly about those issues?

S. Reidy: You know I was thinking the other day about how almost every song on the album is about mental health one way or another. Depression is something I had to deal with for two years a couple of years ago. As best as I can I like to open up discussions on mental health and try to help people work out whatever they’re going through, as artfully and carefully as I can.

EN: When including mental health as a topic artistically, do you feel it important to actively attempt to not sound as if you’re glamorizing the “tortured artist” mindset?

I ask because having gone through depression myself, some of the music this newer generation of artists produces can be scary. Like, depression has almost become a brand. But then I see artists like you who approach it more candidly (as mentioned), and I wonder if that’s a conscious effort.

S. Reidy: It’s not conscious as much as it is just a reflection of my reality that depression is really ugly. It’s dark, deep, and numbing, at least it was for me.

As far as acts on the other end tend to sway, I never want to be a person to tell someone how to live their life. This zeitgeist of Instagram depression, is worrisome in the sense that if I had seen more of this stuff when I was depressed, I would have felt very belittled. It’s also dangerous because when people who genuinely are depressed might find some hollow fulfillment in stepping into the more glamorous side of depression, and the lines start to blur between what’s real, and what’s the act you’re putting on.
Once again, I’m not trying to tell anyone how to deal with their depression, everyone does differently. But artist and fans need to start approaching these things with a different attitude, because we’re seeing the repercussions of not taking depression seriously right before our eyes.

EN: I think the Lil Peep death in general exposed that blurred line between reality and act, that you just mentioned. People close to him are saying he was “performing like people in the WWE,” and that it was a character. But at the same time, you would have to be suffering from something mentally to be abusing drugs and thinking it’s okay to put on a depression act. The glitz and glamour that a lot of people put behind it, I think, distracts from taking it seriously. Which is a shame because a lot of people are losing their battles with these issues. And even someone like Eyedea who was very blunt about his mental state and addiction issues ended up succumbing to it.

How do you think musicians as a collective can approach things different to help mental illness be taken more seriously?

S. Reidy: That’s a really really good question, and I don’t believe that there is one answer to it.

I think the best catch all solution you’ll find here, is to make music honest to yourself. Don’t compromise hard to digest topics for music that’s easy to listen to. And do what artists are put on this earth to do. Be vulnerable.

And as listeners we need to actively pay attention to the struggle of these artists and open up discussions on how we can put all of ourselves in a better situation.

EN: Do you think that the vulnerability could also inspire others to open up to their family and friends about issues they’re experiencing? Given that even underground musicians can be huge role models to their fan base. Especially to younger teens and kids.

S. Reidy: One can only hope man… I just do what I can to the best of my ability and hope that it’s enough. Hopefully our best really is good enough when it comes down to it.

EN: Sort of touching on something topical right now, what are your thoughts on the idea (presented by DJBooth originally) that underground hip-hop is dead due to the accessibility of artists online?

S. Reidy: [Laughs]. Oh that thing huh? You know I don’t have much of an opinion about it honestly. I think I understand what they think they were saying, but if you think there’s no difference between an artist like Drake and WIKI I think your opinions are a little misguided.

But I mean, I can’t change that writers definition of mainstream and underground. It is what it is.

EN: Do you ever worry about a music writer stumbling upon your music and misconstruing things you say? Media coverage can be big, but I imagine it could be frustrating if something was read into entirely incorrectly.

S. Reidy: That’s happened to me before in a super minor way. But honestly I’m not that worried about that kind of stuff, I know in my heart that I’m a good person and if anyone every tries to challenge that based on something I’ve said or did, I have no problem confronting that.

It’s a weird hobby folks have now, attempt to twist things any which way just to ruin someone. It’s pretty lame to be honest. It’s almost of a matter of when they’re gonna come for you rather than if. But I’m 100% prepared for that kind of thing, because once again, I know my intentions, and I never mean any form of harm on anyone or anything.

EN: So you try to be genuine not only in your music and candidness with difficult subjects (such as mental illness), but also in your approach to tour music career?

S. Reidy: I mean, I don’t see any better way of approaching it. I truly believe if you’re a good person, you have nothing to hide. And if people try to chastise you for the life you’re living, just continue being the best person you can be, and the universe always has a way of paying you back.

EN: Does it ever get intimidating opening for more established acts than yourself? I imagine it’s an amazing opportunity, but if I was in that position I would be terrified.

S. Reidy: [Laughs]. Honestly, performing is the easy part. The hard part is being backstage with these artists and acting like I don’t want to take a million pictures, ask them about all their albums, and see if they wanna do a mixtape together. I’m a music dork just as much as I am an artist, so the scary part when performing with these acts is attempting to not look like a dingus in front of my heroes…

EN: Do you ever get the opportunity to soak up any wisdom from them during the process though?

S. Reidy: I mean… I started writing this album after me and milo had an hour long conversation in my garage [laughs]. I wish I could record all the conversation I’ve had with these other artists, because when I talk to them I’m always thinking “these are the words of a person with the mindset it takes to get where they are.”

EN: Do you find that these established guys have a different outlook on things than your average indie emcee who hasn’t quite figured themselves out yet? As in, I guess I mean… Do they speak about things differently?

S. Reidy: I don’t think it’s a different outlook, I think it’s just knowledge.

What I’m learning more about the people I look up to the closer I get to them, is the fact that these are people who have made a thousands of mistakes. But mistakes don’t discourage them, and they’re super happy to make them, because all that means is that they know exactly how not to do what they’re wanting to do. The confidence in yourself to remember what it was that got you where you are. That’s the kind of wisdom I’m working towards.

EN: Say a young artist approached you tomorrow, and they were extremely frustrated with their own music due to making mistakes and not hitting the mark they’ve set for themselves – what sort of advice would you pass on to them?

S. Reidy: [Laughs]… Dude unfortunately I’m terrible at motivational speeches.

My whole thing is, do you love music? Can you not picture your life without creating? Then you don’t need motivation from me. I hate when people tell me they want to make music but they never feel inspired. Like, dude, you’re never inspired? Nothing inspires you? You need to either broaden your horizons, or just admit that music isn’t what you’re supposed to do. I know that sounds harsh [laughs], but being an artist is work, if you aren’t willing to clock in to your job, then quit. You know?

EN: Plus like…do you even think inspiration is necessary to get started in art? For me anyway, in my music production side project, there are times when I’m totally not inspired, but I can still sit any play around with things and try something new. Then when I’m feeling it emotionally, I can really sit down and apply those things. There’s something to be said for just messing around and learning too, don’t you agree?

S. Reidy: Or just listening to different guitar tones for an hour and seeing which one you like more, or trying ever single drum groove you can think of that might compliment the melody of the song. Studio time and creative space isn’t always fireworks and magic, and I think that’s a big misconception among new artists.

EN: Do you think they only see end results from their favorite artists and maybe assume that just happens, without considering all the foundations that are laid first?

S. Reidy: That’s absolutely the problem, or people are just to caught up in wanting to be rockstars that’s they don’t understand that 80% of it isn’t even fun. Not that work isn’t fun, but you have to love it.

EN: Word. I think that’s a valuable lesson that everyone making music needs to learn eventually. So, I do gotta ask, what’s next for you now that you’ve released this album? What steps do you take to keep advancing your music career?

S. Reidy: I’m gonna just keep recording music, videos, do tour, interviews, tweet Anthony Fantano 43 times a day to review my album, and do the DIY thing with it man.

Tyler and Ryan of Poor English Discuss The Band and its Beginnings

by Dustin

poorenglish

You learn things really quickly while sitting down and speaking with Porland’s Poor English. First and foremost, their English is actually really good. Shocker, right? Secondly, Tyler is the talkative one. He probably could have conducted this interview single-handedly and had it finished sooner than we did.

Most importantly however, is that it became very clear that this project is a labor of love filled with extremely passionate musicians. For as much as we loved Poor English when we reviewed their debut EP, it wasn’t clear yet just how open ended and fun this band was as a whole. Fortunately, Tyler and Ryan took a little time out of their first half of 2017 (yeah, this interview took a while) to discuss the group with us.

We think you’ll come to find that they are the biggest little band you’ll ever see.

EN: How did the Poor English band come together? I know there were some other projects with band member involvement such as Sunbather, so how did this lineup end up meeting?

Tyler: Good question! A few years back, I moved to Portland from Indiana where I was involved with some other projects. One was called Cool Dad, which Joe was also a part of. That was more a college, dance, house party type band, but I digress…I was super bummed to leave that project, but more importantly my band called Mid-American. So I put an ad on Craigslist that essentially said “I want to make a band. But I don’t have a drum kit or a place to play.”

Somehow Ryan thought that was fine and decided to email me back. So we met in October of 2014 and jammed a lil bit and then just kinda stopped playing together. Fast-forward like 5 months and we decided to give it another go. We started gelling big time. So we tried out a bunch of different musicians and vocalists. None of them quite worked out. And Sunbather had just released their album Braneworld, which Ryan and I couldn’t get enough of. We thought Joe’s math-rock-esque background and unique vocal style is exactly what we were looking for. So I reached out to him and he was super onboard. Over the course of a long time we had sent him scratch tracks of the 5 songs you hear on the Ep and he would crank out some vox and guitar licks and send it back. Pretty much an instant perfect fit. That’s pretty much it.

EN: There’s a lot I could say about such a refreshing band forming out of Tyler being a music freeloader – but I wont for the sake of professionalism haha. With that in mind, was there a conscious goal to have somewhat of a pop-punk revivalist sound when you guys were starting out? I mean, you guys have such a unique blend of throwback and forward thinking that it feels like it has to have been planned.

TYLER: I’ll definitely let the other dudes chime in, but honestly, nope. I must say, I have been somewhat confused.. or maybe surprised by all the folks pegging us as pop-punk. Because to me, pop-punk is Four Year Strong, Blink 182, Bowling for Soup, and the like. Be that as it may, the people have spoken.

I think we all have a taste for technical music and atypical sounds that play well off of each member’s unique sound. In other words, I think the three of us fit like a glove. Definitely not planned, but it ended up working out very well.

I’m really interested to see how our new members’ sounds will mold any upcoming tunes we write. Joe being Georgia, we have adopted two new members to play live and are finally getting around to starting on the writing process.

Also, isn’t there a quote out there about the best artists stealing work as their own? Something like that? Yeah well, I like to steal the actual musicians.

EN: The “pop-punk” sound I’m thinking of is more of an alternative thing rather than the Bowling for Soup and Blink 182 era of commercial skate punk; I suppose that’s all semantics though. Genre definitions are stupid.

Tyler: Indeed they are!

Ryan: I definitely agree with Tyler in that the sound wasn’t planned at all. It definitely just came together based upon having similar backgrounds and taste, but also as individuals trying to find our own sound, which was luckily pleasing to the ear when it all combined into the creation of this EP.

EN: How did you guys end up releasing the EP through Darling Recordings? I actually found your tunes through being a member of the Sweetheart Record Club that Nick does for the label.

Tyler: Oh hell yeah. His record club is awesome. I didn’t realize that’s how you first heard us.

I am actually originally from Indiana. Nick and I met when we were in college. We didn’t attend the same school, but we had a lot of mutual friends. Drew (Goodmorning Players) and Ben (FLANCH) were both in Cool Dad as well. And they’re both good friends of Nick. So that’s how we got hooked up. I was really digging what Darling was doing at the time. We had chatted while Ryan and I were first writing and I would just bounce early demos off of him. And it just seemed to moved forward pretty organically from there.

EN: I actually bought the record club subscription because I already owned the FLANCH and Hales Corner projects, and then I heard a song off Poor English and thought the album art was cool. So really, you guys having good taste in art suckered me into the club. It was a good decision.

I’m assuming the working relationship between you guys and Darling is pretty solid then, given your history with Nick and company?

Tyler: Oh yeah absolutely. It’s been smooth because he is willing to be as hands-on or as hands-off as the artists want him to be. Oh, and thanks for the kind words man!

EN: No worries! I’m very much a fan of the band, it’s awesome to have been there from the first release. Speaking of which, were you guys surprised at how Everlaster caught on? I saw it getting TV spots, it also has a ton of streams on Spotify. That cut is such a breath of fresh air that even from the sidelines, seeing it blow up was amazing.

Tyler: Ha, yes! It was wild. It seemed like we were watching it all happen from the sidelines as well. So much stuff was happening around us (and it) for a while there, without us even really doing anything. [We’re] so thankful that it ended up on Fresh Finds. That was huge. And as far as the TV spot? No idea how that happened. The dude who runs social media for the Trailblazers somehow found it and just decided he was going to use it as the “local music spotlight”. I don’t watch basketball, so I’m not sure how that works, but I assume they have a local music spotlight every so often. Should we have gotten paid for that? Nick? Wanna help us out here? [Laughs]

EN: Does seeing one of your songs catch like that make you feel pressure on yourselves to make something that clicks with listeners in the same type of way?

Tyler: Eh, I would say initially it does. But really in the long-run it doesn’t. It would be cool if our tunes did click with folks in that way, but that’s not why we wrote this music in the first. So I try not to let myself get into that headspace, because that can be dangerous. Plus, if you really think about it, it is still a very small thing in the grand scheme of things.

Ryan: Yeah, I don’t really worry about it at all. It’s cool that it did catch on a little bit, but writing for someone else’s wants or needs never carries as much weight as writing for yourself. I think people will connect more with the music your write if you approach writing this way.

EN: The vibe I’m picking up, and always have, from you guys with those sort of responses is that the artistry is more important than anything else when approaching your music. With that in mind, how important do you think it is to routinely push the boundaries of the Poor English sound going forward?

Tyler: I’d say it’s huge. Speaking for myself – and bare with me here, really not trying to sound pretentious – I have found recently that I don’t really fall in love with an artist or a record unless they’re pushing themselves, and creating sounds that I haven’t really ever heard before. I find that my Spotify library has become extremely diverse for this reason. So as far as writing goes, I am always looking to create new sounds and rhythms. Atypical sounds and the like. A big inspiration for me here is Chris Hainey from Maps & Atlases. He is the reason I am starting to build out my kit with more than just your regular drum shells and cymbals. And the 5 of us are constantly sending each other new tunes in our group chat. Finding that next piece of inspiration is huge, too.

EN: This is something that I don’t think enough artists discuss, so to expand on that, do you think it’s inevitable that your sound will evolve as your tastes in music outside your own change?

Tyler: I think it’s inevitable for sure. It’s important to note though, that there is a huge difference between inspiration and influence. A lot of greener bands or musicians may end up sounding a lot like a certain band or bands, because they are pulling so heavily from said groups and you can really hear the influence. I think it’s very important to be aware of that difference as you write, as to not lean too heavily into an influence, but rather take inspiration and learn to form your own sound.

EN: Do you find that a lot of smaller bands struggle to establish their own sound?

Tyler: I think newer bands often struggle, maybe not smaller bands as we are super small. But yeah, it all comes back to being able to distinguish between influence and inspiration, in my honest opinion. Also not focusing too much on what they think they should sound like, and focusing more on whatever the hell comes out of your own mind.

And by newer bands, I mean a band made of up of musicians who don’t have tons of experience playing and writing. I was in a band once when I was young and we sounded like a straight up blend of 3 of my favorite bands. You could pick out which songs were influenced by which band. No bueno.

EN: Since you guys have added a couple of others for live shows and such, I have to ask, will they be actively involved in the writing and recording process going forward?

Tyler: That’s actually a discussion that’s been ongoing for some time now. The way we’re working on this one is that Ryan and I are writing songs and if anyone has ideas they want to try out or throw into the song, then by all means. So for example, we’re working on a song right now – working title is Bonfire – and have it up on Google Drive that we, Darling, Joe, and the other dudes who play live with us, have access to. So if anyone wants to grab it and write a part for it then we want them to do so. Joe has taken a liking to this tune and immediately started writing for it. Matt and Michael are certainly welcome to add to it. But if they don’t want to or aren’t inspired, then no sweat. I don’t know if that makes sense.

We’re sort of just making it an open process to whoever feels inspired. Obviously Ryan and I are writing on every tune though.

EN: Would you say that you’re aiming for a sort of…Broken Social Scene approach? Where anyone contribute if they feel like it, but that you and Ryan will almost always be the core band members involved in every song?

Tyler: It seems to be that that is how it has worked out. Not necessarily intentionally, but yeah it’s looking to be that way. Kinda cool.

EN: What’s the experience like, playing proper gigs for the first time? I know a lot of young musicians who, going into their first performances, had near anxious breakdowns.

Ryan: I don’t feel that we get very nervous playing shows as we all have experience playing live. Most of our shows are very intimate and we’re playing for people we know for the most part, so there’s really nothing for us to be nervous about. Playing our songs off the EP live has let me see how people physically react to the music, whether or not they’re dancing, just spectating, etc. Those experiences, I feel, are in some way shaping the new music we’re working on (at least it’s affecting me and my contributions) as we hope to take our live performances and energy to a whole new level.

Tyler: I agree. It’s been fun to gauge reactions and talk to folks afterwards. And having been playing the same set for so long makes it that much more comfortable, but it also motivates me to push our sound even further so we can create the best experience possible for our fans.

Also, I’ve been playing shows since 8th grade so I’m past the nerves for the most part. The first few times I had to sing some shit on stage with Poor English was a little nerve racking because that’s a new thing for me, but I love doing it now.

LordGio Speaks on Artistry, Overcoming Depression, and Open Musical Horizons

by Dustin

gio

It’s not very often that a submission to our open inbox actually catches our ears here. Generally projects are half finished, poorly put together, and underdeveloped; yet, the inbox remains open as a means for artists to put themselves out there. It stays worthwhile as every once in a while something genuinely special blows away all expectations. That was the case when Mississippi’s LordGio submitted his Heatwave Vol. 1 tape several months back. Digging into his back catologue showed a true hidden gem of an artist, and a true creative. Simply reviewing his material would have been difficult. There is no material about his backstory to provide context. It would have done any of his works a severe injustice.

That’s where we come in. We decided to sit down with LordGio and really sink into what makes him an individual. It’s a bit of a longer read, but we promise it’s well worth it. Enjoy.

EN: For those who are unaware, could you give a little background on yourself as a musician?

LordGio: Alright well, I guess technically I started with music in middle school when I was learning to play the trumpet, which I practiced all the way up until college. When it comes to rapping though, I started writing raps in 5th grade and they were pretty trash…but I guess decent for my age looking back at them? Like, I had a knack for sticking to themes, subjects and storytelling even though the wording was pretty cringey. Sometime in the 9th grade, I started being active on the website RapGenius (now Genius). I saw so many musicians on the forums and that made me realize how un-impossible this whole thing was.

I had gotten the game Rock Band in middle school and I played it pretty much every day until around the 9th grade when I didn’t really have time and I could pretty much “100%” all the songs on hard mode. I got the idea to use the microphone from the game (because it was a working USB Microphone) and use that to actually record some rapping on my favorite beats. I believe the first one I did was Low Class Conspiracy by Quasimoto.

I wrote something on the way to school and it kind of had the same subject of police brutality and was a bit of a distortion of a real life story that happened to me and looking back it’s one of the few of my old things that I’m like “eh that’s not too shabby”. I post that to the forum, asking people what they think. There wasn’t much technique or wordplay, but people appreciated the flow and storytelling and said it was pretty good besides the fact that it sounded like ass because the cheap mic and lack of mixing and mastering. However, that was enough for me to be like, “huh maybe I /can/ do this”. I started doing it more often all the while trying to improve my lyrical ability; studying hip hop way more than I did before and studying from all sorts of artists that I never listened to before. I eventually hit a bump where I was tired of looking for beats and never really finding anything that really fit what I was looking for (not to mention being too broke to afford any legitimately).

I started fiddling with the idea of just making my own beats. I tried all sorts of useless free software and made a bunch of worthless material, but each time I got better than the last and that’s all that mattered to me. I eventually landed on ableton and started getting decent enough after a while to where people said it was alright, but not to the point where I wanted to rap over it (which was the initial goal of course). I kept trying and trying and shaping and molding and changing styles until I finally made one and decided to try rapping over it. It was decent, but it sounded terrible. That was around halfway through the 10th grade…

Now I’d suffered from depression since middle school, and around this same time is where I probably hit rock bottom. I got tired of the routine (wake up, go to school, go home, repeat…replace school with college and then with work and do this until you die). I felt like life was so pointless and i just wanted to skip to the dying part, but I remember it like it was yesterday: I was in Chemistry class and I was staring out of the window looking at birds fly and wishing I could just do the same. Just be able to fly and never have to stay in the same place, and deal with the same shit over and over again. I was addicted to watching Curren$y’s Jet Life vlogs and wished I could just be on the road like that and go all over the world. So I said fuck it, that’s what I’m gonna do. I didn’t know how I was gonna do it, but I knew I was gonna do it. And I just kept getting better everyday. I didn’t even care about school anymore, nothing else mattered and music was the only thing I thought about from the time I woke up to the time I went to sleep. This shit became the only thing I’m alive for, and so I refused to let anything get in the way of it.

EN: So you got really serious about it at that point.

LordGio: Yeah. I started figuring out the formulas from watching interviews, listening to people’s firsthand accounts, soaking up any kind of knowledge, advice, and good or bad examples that I could find. I didn’t have any connections so i made myself the connection. I learned how to make beats, I learned how to mix and master, I learned how to promote myself, and most importantly, I figured out how exactly to get on and do something with this.

Enter: JELLYFISH_.

I realized that if I was ever gonna do something with this, I have to be unique. I have to have my own sound and my own image and my own brand. People need to remember me apart from everybody else that makes music. So I started a project making beats from scratch, with no real stylistic blueprint. Whereas before, I though “I’m gonna make a beat like this guy or like that guy.” I instead started JELLYFISH_ with the mindset that “I’m gonna make this beat that’s not like anything I’ve ever heard before.” I finally got enough songs that I was proud of, cut out a bunch of them, and put it on Bandcamp. Since then it’s been pretty much business as usual

That album didn’t just grant me any wishes or anything, but I’d say that was the turning point where I started realizing how to get myself on, and actually started applying it.

EN: I notice you mentioned Quasimoto. I’m assuming Madlib is one of your influences, but who else influenced and shaped your drive to produce?

LordGio: Madlib is definitely one of my primary influences. I’d say Curren$y was the one who inspired me to rap, but I remember very clearly that I wanted to start producing after I listened to Purple Naked Ladies by The Internet. Noisey had a behind the scenes interview with them at Syd and Matt’s apartment. They had simple, barebones furnishing, with eccentric lighting everywhere and a simple studio room and I was just like “this is it.” That was what I dreamed of. I imagined having a space like that and I was able (and still to this day able) to say that, if I could just wake up in a place like that everyday and just be able to and make some shit and do whatever…that was my dream.

At that time I was really into Odd Future stylistically. It was through them that I discovered guys like MF DOOM. I guess they kind of opened my ears to so many different genres and sounds. They probably inspired me to be confident enough make something as left-field and all over the place as JELLYFISH_.

Other influences though would be A Tribe Called Quest, Eric B & Rakim, the OVO collective. Artists like Three 6 Mafia, UGK and No Limit were influences from before I even started making music. Being from Mississippi that’s pretty much what I was raised on. I think those influences are starting to show a little bit more than they may have on JELLYFISH_ with this new sequel project I’m working, ANEMONE_. I should also list Flying Lotus, Hiatus Kaiyote and even Led Zeppelin to an extent. I’m influenced by a lot of stuff really [laughs], I don’t think I could make a full list.

EN: Do you believe that having a wide range of influences helped you to become more versatile as a producer going forward?

LordGio: Yeah definitely. I think having an ear for so many different genres has not only opened me up to different rhythms, chords, tones/tambres, but also different subjects or concepts that people who only listen to one style of music may not be familiar with but perhaps that they identify with personally or culturally. I think having those things that people can relate to gives them a further appreciation for my work because I show awareness of things they aren’t used to being addressed in “hip-hop.”

Speaking of that, I think having these different influences has also helped me to craft a sound that doesn’t strictly fit one genre. This allows my music to be picked up in different crowds. I’ve had people tell me that they’d never thought they would like 4/4 style dance music until they heard the second half of drip, at which point they started seeking out more. They saw that there could be stuff for them in the dance music world.

EN: Do you think it’s too limiting when artists allow themselves to be defined by a single genre right out of the gate?

LordGio: Yeah, I think it can cause problems in the long run. I don’t think Kanye ever really wanted to just be a rapper for example. I think he always intended on making projects like 808s & Heartbreak or Yeezus, but maybe we just caught him early in his creativity. I’ve noticed that there are artists who “blew up too early.” What often happens in the entertainment industry is that artists tend to be forced into the style fans discovered them with. If you look at a Kanye or an Earl Sweatshirt, you see people who suffered because they got famous for one thing, when in reality they have a lot more to offer.

I think a Tyler, the Creator is an example of when it goes right. He came in the game kind of unusual, so he had room throughout his career to completely re-invent his style because nobody knew what to expect since the beginning. I think that’s what I aim for and why I’ve grown much more patient with my career bubbling slowly. I want to build a diverse catalog before people really start looking at me, so no one has to look at future releases and feel blindsided by a change of pace.

EN: Touching on something you mentioned earlier because I’ve gone through similar things mentally. I was wondering if you could expand on the importance of music for you when dealing with depression?

LordGio: It was a lifesaver man. I grew up in a household that stood on the concept of “you’re a child, you don’t open your mouth unless spoken to. You don’t have an opinion, privacy, or a right to your own thoughts.” Looking back, that’s an unhealthy way to raise a child because it’s important for people to get these thoughts out freely and have them heard and digested rather than instantly rejected. I grew up feeling like I was alone. Like I’m the only one who thought the things that I thought and saw the things that I saw and there was something wrong with me. At some point early in childhood this, coupled with bullying at school and other things essentially made me give up on society. I still to this day (while I’m trying to work on it) feel like I can speak something clearly in English and other people react like I’m speaking another language. I just stopped saying anything.

I was left alone with these thoughts, like an open wound left to fester. Lack of self esteem turned into self hatred when I was the only one who seeing my side of things. Parents reinforced those negative thoughts that I already had. Life is only a predictable cycle of misery when shown no other path but the standard, and it fueled the inadequacy and self hatred because I don’t fall into that norm.

When you introduce the idea of writing lyrics however, this changes things a little. It introduced a space where I could write these ideas down. There is no criteria for being right or wrong; there is no “MLA format.”; there are no weird looks or uncomfortable moments; there is no misunderstanding because I know exactly what I mean by these words. When I share these ideas with strangers and they like them, they try to figure them out. Even if they’re getting it wrong, it feels like I’m not alone.

I mentioned that i first started recording music after being active on Genius. This also introduced me to many of my best friends of all time. People who were intrigued by the same art as me, even if it was for different reasons. This shows that I am truly not alone because if they completely shared my points of view, that would still feel like being alone. For their thoughts to be different takes on my own, it shows they aren’t patronizing my thoughts by pretending to share them.

Producing tacked on a whole new level to this. There’s kind of an understanding of how inefficient and ineffective spoken language can be. There are feelings and ideas that neither I, nor anyone can find the words for, but that I know other people experience. I think art is such a powerful tool because it allows us to communicate those feelings and thoughts to each other without the limitations of semantics, grammar, logic, and tone. A person can look at a painting of some splotches of color, and feel something from looking at it that they just can’t express in words; however, they know what they’re feeling, and it’s so strange because that feeling can be so much different than what the artist felt or even what the next viewer will feel.

Producing music is my painting. I have this freedom to put sounds here and there, like colors from my palette. Sounds that I create, sounds that I cut out and re-use because they’re familiar to me.

This limitless nature of sounds shows me that maybe life isn’t a predictable cycle. If nothing else, I can at least count on the idea that there are no railroad tracks constraining me musically. I applied this to life and realized that the railroad is only there if I want it to be. We’re told to drive on the road and that works for many people, but the truth is that we’re perfectly free to pull over and walk into the woods. If I wander around the woods long enough I may find other campers like me who have the techniques and supplies to help me survive. Alternatively, I could kick the bucket before I find these people, but that’s okay with me as long as I’m able to roam freely with the imagination of something being out there. It gives life meaning and a reason for me to press on and keep waking up for the next chapter.

EN: Do you think that, in general, we (be that author, musician, average person, whoever) need to be more open about mental illness? I know for many, particularly for individuals in poorer communities, there is a “don’t ask, don’t tell” mindset around it. I know you mentioned experiencing something like that with your family, so I’m very interested in your thoughts about how the discourse needs to change.

LordGio: That’s it exactly! There’s a cycle in poorer communities that “we have bigger things to worry about than mental health,” but that only creates further problems. We tell our kids that they don’t have anything to be upset about, which teaches them to disregard their emotions in unhealthy ways. It ends up warping their view of the world and causing them to develop more bad habits or commit harmful acts to themselves or others as an outlet.

Then as adults we reject the idea of seeking therapy, even amongst ourselves via honest dialogue because “these bills are more important” or “there’s nothing wrong with me.” Our kids see this, and it adds to the stigma around mental illness.

Unfortunately, the famous people who are more honest with their personal issues and struggles are seen as alternative, strange, or downright taboo to individuals in these communities too.

EN: I appreciate your openness on these subjects, thank you. Moving back into your music a little bit, your last project had some work with other vocalists if I remember correctly. What’s it like to work with the idea of having someone else perform on your track?

LordGio: It’s really exciting because when I’m making a song – whether it has lyrics or not – I kind of have this whole central idea of the song when listening. But then when I’m collaborating with people it’s interesting to see that the song could evoke a totally different or eerily similar feeling in them. It’s also exciting when I’m mixing or editing their vocals and they get that same sort of feeling.

EN: Would you like to expand further into working with other artists on their own material, or do you prefer to work mostly on your solo releases?

LordGio: I do prefer to work mostly on my solo releases, but I also want to have collaborative projects with people. My JELLYFISH_ album is part of a three part series and they’re all going to be self produced and have no features, but I’m always excited to have collaborations on other projects.

I also want to collaborate with artists of different mediums. I have this video out right now called “eyes(n)ears” that depicts me playing a set while a line artist I met does a live-draw outside a local art museum. We’re gonna be looking to do it again in different places.

But expanding on that, I’m interested in doing work on video games, anime, and independent film. I have fragments of ideas for short films, but I want to focus on my music first before I take on another medium.

EN: That seems like a very unexplored territory for younger producers. The only producer that immediately jumps to mind for soundtracking video games is Doseone. Do you think producing for other artists is a skill that’s highly transferable to scoring for a game or movie? I mean that in the sense that you’re basically having to bring someone else’s ideas to life rather than your own.

LordGio: Yeah, the only one I can think of in video games is C418 who made the Minecraft soundtrack. But yeah, it’s the same as that whole collaboration aspect where I think it would be cool to create my own interpretation of that artist’s vision. There’s usually more functional soundtracks, but then there’s those like Minecraft, or anime like Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, and Samurai Champloo, where the soundtrack composer approached it with the functionality taking a backseat but while still fitting within the aesthetic of the whole production. That’s where you have projects whose soundtracks can arguably stand alone as their own pieces. This often times enhances the project as a whole, because it can reinforce the emotions evoked from the writing or the visuals.

That’s the kind of thing I would want to work on, as I tend to find myself struggling when I try to do more strict and conventional work.

EN: To close, I’d like to ask a question that often gets asked to people who’ve made it to huge levels of fame; however, I always think the answer is more interesting when discussing it with smaller independant artists. If you were to sit down and talk with someone who was just learning to produce – as in they’re completely new to music as a whole – what would be the advice you’d give?
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LordGio: It would probably be that there’s no right way to do this. Lots of people are gonna feel like you’re doing it wrong, because either you’re not using the traditional techniques or because you’re not doing the state-of-the-art new techniques. The truth is, art has no blueprint. There’s no tried and true route to creating art, otherwise it wouldn’t be art. I look on the internet from time to time and see a lot of people asking what tools they should use, whether hardware is better than software, and whether sampling, sound design, or the use of live instrumentation is better. The truth is it could be any combination of those things that makes a great project, or it could just be one. Either way, use what you can get your hands on because it makes for a more interesting story when you came across a tool or material by chance and figured out how to make sounds with it especially if it’s something nobody ever considers using.

So yeah, there’s no right or wrong way. Don’t listen to the old people or the hipsters. Don’t listen to the little kids or the hypebeasts. Just make what feels right.

FilthyBroke Recordings’ Michael J. Collins Speaks on Respect, Running a Label, and Life in the Indie Scene

by Dustin

fbr

When a seasoned veteran of the music scene is willing to open up about their experiences, it’s generally wise to open your ears. Those who have committed to the indie scene grind their whole life have a wealth of stories, knowledge, and warnings for those who wish to follow the same path. Michael J. Collins, the leader of FilthyBroke Recordings (and long-time indie musician) is one of these such people.

To keep it short and sweet (because this interview is long and wonderfully in-depth), he’s seen a lot. We were fortunate enough to get to have a long sit-down with Michael, and the end result is an unforgettable interview about clawing his way through the music scene, and establishing an independent music outlet. He’s also a super charismatic dude – the interview was an unforgettable process that we couldn’t be more pleased to have had.

This is necessary reading for anyone enticed by a similar trail, and recommended reading for those who just love music.

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EN: So, I’ll start with the basics since I like to make sure there’s info for new readers. When and why did you decide to start up Filthy Broke Recordings?

MJC: FilthyBroke Recordings, often referred to as FBR, will be three years old in May of this new year. As for the “why”… Jeesh, there’s a multitude of factors, but I can distill things down:

I had quit music twice before, and realized I would never be satisfied unless I could have a safe outlet to put out whatever the fuck I wanted. Some of which is hip-hop, much of which is not. Having released on many imprints around the world for several years, I learned the hard way that I am much more comfortable being a lone-wolf. Even if that means making way less money.

EN: I can definitely relate to that – at least from the writing side of things. I like being in control of my own output, even though it feels limiting at times. Do you ever feel frustrated with the sacrifices you had to make to achieve that “lone-wolf” status?

MJC: Oh man, in the beginning? Heck yeah, often. Particularly getting used to not making money, even though I knew that would be the case going in. As an artist that had never tried the label thing before, I honestly almost quit music again as our first release was coming together. Basically, I had been used to putting out 12″s on other folks’ labels for some time. I would get my fee and my royalties quarterly, and not really consider what was going on over on the other side. At that time, as you said, I wanted some control over what I was creating rather than being told by a label, “make more stuff like that one [release] from 2008.” This desire for control, as well as my lack of knowing how hard it actually is to run a label are what manifested into FBR.

Dude, within three months of the label going from concept to [the first] 12″ order being placed, I was stolen from… A myriad other shady shit happened that nearly led to me walking away before it even started… At that point my money was all-in though, so I figured try to peddle a few records and then call it quits. Going through a divorce at that time certainly did not help my lack of enthusiasm. Somehow things just kept going despite myself and my tendency to self-sabotage.

I still plan to get my fucking $350 from that punk out in California. If you are reading this, “CM”, know this to be true. I may show up at 84 with an oxygen tank by my side, but I will get that money back. I know it seems petty, y’all, but stealing is wack as fuck, and there are principles at stake for me anyway.

In short, the beginning was a nightmare. Now I am so so happy I made those sacrifices and stuck it out. I still go crazy daily. Hourly.

EN: That’s pretty intense man – it sounds like you’re one hell of a stubborn dude (I mean that in the best way) when it comes to your label. Was there a particular point where you finally were able to say, “You know what? I can do this?”

MJC: Ha! I am stubborn to a fault, I am obsessed with people “doing the right thing” and realize all of that is based in my own unrealistic expectations of others… Like, for real, I in no way wanna come off as negative about things, how things started, just how it was for better or for worse. It was a learning experience of the highest order, in that it truly tested whether or not I felt I could work in music in some other capacity than simply being a recording artist. Though I felt like saying “Fuck it” so many times I learned that people (myself included) are flawed, some youngsters/older folk have never dealt with labels before, not worth throwing shade… Rather, learn from the “climate” of what’s happening in the moment, pick a solid circle of trustworthy people, and love them to death. Help each other to the end of the earth… So, yeah… It was probably like three months ago actually where I felt like, “I can do this. I may be good at this actually, I am growing a thicker skin and a wonderful network.” And the bottom line is that putting out a wide array of music that oddly caught on a bit, with no PR, is addictive. I wanna prove everyone wrong, like, “we don’t pay to play but are sustaining.” Maybe unrealistic, but now if ever is a time for idealism.

EN: With that in mind, I guess this goes back a bit to what we talked about before the interview too, that artists and labels need to respect each other. How important is that respect to you in your operations both as an artist and label head?

MJC: In my mind, Dustin, [it] is paramount to everything. Respect is huge, I think that also taking a step back from one’s own bubble to listen to [and] push the work of others is crucial. I am always preaching, “Support Independent Music.” It was not until starting the label that I really knew what that meant, for me. And for me that means actually SUPPORTING good art by good people, whether it is associated with FBR or not. I believe that at the end of the day, cooperation trumps competition (pun intended. Like, I feel happier (and feel the label does much better) when I am sharing music by other people.

Sharing my own stuff all day is not only boring, but feels stale and selfish when there is so much other amazing music out there. I get turned off by (what I consider to be) ego-driven people, artists and labels. Folks that claim they are “The Best.” Folks that scream for support of their work yet do not engage with others. Liars, cheats and thieves. I guess it’s selfishness that turns me off, as I see it as completely nonproductive in this day and age.

Yes, I prefer the “lone-wolf” aspect of control over the label’s output… However, I would have been dead in the water were it not for people like Fake Four Inc, Oliver Booking Company, Walter Gross, Ceschi, Fremdtunes outta the Netherlands, [and] so many others. These types of people contribute so much to our underground music scene; [they] do so with grace and a willingness to push the work of other unaffiliated artists and labels simply because it’s good stuff and worth sharing. The act of sharing someone else’s music may not seem like much, but when you do not pay to play nor have PR it is actually invaluable. I personally make a point to share non-FBR music all day, mixed in with some stuff about what we have going on. It feels so good to have someone say, “Yo, this is so dope. Thanks for sharing it, I have never heard this before.” And said person then has been turned onto something they can relate to or enjoy. I know that most of our music has been heard due to other people taking time to mention it.

That feeling of community is so necessary for me, as I have had some very bad experiences as mentioned earlier.

EN: Man, I definitely feel that – one if my biggest passions is putting people onto new stuff. Especially when it comes to independent art. Do you also feel like the music industry as a whole is pushing toward a more “grassroots” collective of small communities now that major labels have fallen out of favour (in part due to how they disrespect artists)?

MJC: Yeah man, I do see things moving towards a more “grassroots” perspective! And like you said, putting people on to other stuff seems to be a part of that. As far as what I was trying to explain before, regarding folks trying to band together, I am really happy to say I am observing it more and more. I know I often come off as crabby and negative, however the ideal I was mentioning earlier… As far as people big-upping each other rather than trying to push a singular agenda? It’s happening and I love it. Thus, I choose to surround myself with artists that see the benefit of exploring new music, sharing new music by friends or some 16-year old in Greenland.

Promoting myself and the label naturally comes with the territory. On the other hand, by actively participating in the scene as simply a fan? That has been not only the most fun, but the most rewarding because of the relationships that have manifested over time. I have been fortunate to work with people I have admired for 25 years, people I would obsess over as a kid… It’s such a trip. The only reason those things happened is because of friendships building over time. Friendships that organically started from a simple retweet in some cases. Let people know you dig what they are doing! Make a point of telling friends what you are into at the moment! It’s as grassroots as it gets, but it’s fun and the only way forward in my humble opinion. Little collectives banding together can make a big fucking noise.

EN: Related to this – I have to ask, how does it feel for you when you see someone repping a project you were involved in (either as an artist, or a label head)? I know for me, when I’ve received props for the site from someone I’ve admired it really brightens my day. Hell, even my whole week sometime

MJC: Oh dude, you have no idea! I still freak out like a little kid on his birthday! Call me a fanboy, but I am so full of self-doubt when it comes to my own music (which I have now been releasing for 20 fucking years). I don’t know whether to laugh or cry about that [laughs]. Not to mention I am so busy with the label and mastering for other labels I don’t often get to write these days. Thus, when someone I really admire takes a liking to a new piece it is refreshing and I feel elated. Like, “Okay, maybe I don’t suck as bad as I think and don’t need to quit.” I’ve become much better though, in that these days I am my own harshest critic. Back in the day when I was releasing a lot of music on other labels, I would smash my copy of the 12″ before it ever entered my home. Now I can listen to what I have done over the last couple years and not cry or throw up… Progress! I simply find reassurance when others reach out and say, “This isn’t bad, keep putting out music.” Otherwise I would just record for myself and never release it.

These days the biggest rush comes from the mastering stuff. I just finished mastering the new Walter Gross for Sole’s Black Box Tapes. Just being entrusted with something like that is so humbling and exciting.

EN: That’s so cool, I own some of Walter Gross’ music and he’s a beast. Dude’s got one of the most evil sounding styles out there, in my opinion. Did it take a long time to get to the point where artists regularly trusted you? I imagine building that rapport could be a lengthy process.

MJC: I have no idea how it ended up this way to be honest… It really should not have. I mean, Walter is literally my favourite contemporary recording artist. [He] is the most underrated person in underground music plain and simple, in my opinion.

I actually remember how it kinda started! I had recorded a remix for a label outta Canada. It was to be broadcast, pre-mastering, on some BBC radio show mix. The artist hit me up and said, “louden it for me so I can play it on the radio.” I had never messed around with post-production before, as I had been advised to leave it to the professionals. This was like 7 or 8 years ago. So, I started playing with a limiter and making really bad, really loud pre-release “masters” of stuff for promo purposes, [like] DJ mixes and such. I sucked so bad and knew it. As with everything else I knew I had to step up my game – learn some shit. I was totally secluded in the mountains of Arizona, and had no one to help me out. I just lived on engineering forums and started out with a few plug-ins. After playing around for a few years I felt like I was sorta getting a sense of what sounded proper and what sounded like trash. I bought some more gear and started doing it for FBR.

The turning point was when we released the Hoot cassette. It was archival material recorded between ’05-’09. It was all over the place, and I felt that I was ready for a challenge. For some reason the whole thing just flowed and turned out okay! Then I mastered the Walter Gross release for FBR, [which was] a while ago. From there I realized it was time to really go for it, but was still nervous as hell about ruining the work of others.

For some reason a few people trusted me as I continued to learn. I did the post-production on the joint release we did with Fake Four (which is awful now that I listen [laughs], but it taught me a lot). That trust enabled me to make a lot of mistakes and also learn a ton of stuff. I stepped up the studio and started trusting my ears. For the last six months I have felt really comfortable in the mastering lab, and somehow attained a client base. I just got a job tonight in fact, from someone I did an eight CD mastering project for a couple months back. I thought it was gonna take forever to find clients and build the rapport you spoke of; [however], I think since mastering is so fucking expensive (and I love doing it), trying to make it affordable has helped. I also think that my communication with the artist helps. I am so picky that I would never want to put out someone else’s project with my name attached if the masters were shit. I turn down jobs that I do not feel I can improve upon aside from loudness. It’s taking time, we’re still in the beginning stages really, but much love to the several repeat clients! I have over 100 songs mastered for all formats dropping on various labels in the next 6 months. I am so grateful, and still learning. However, the fact many folks have come back repeatedly really enthuses me. Like, “maybe I can do this!” So much self-doubt [laughs]… Our latest, the new V8 tape, was mastered by me. I think it is my best work to date in that department. Thanks all for the one day sell-out!

EN: It sounds like you have a very strong sense of pride in your work – Do you ever get frustrated when you see an artist or label being lazy/sloppy with what they’re releasing?

MJC: I think the word “sense” is the operative word here, man. I wanna take pride in everything, but always feel I can do better. I think this can be good though, always challenging one’s self to do more, better. Our latest release, the V8 cassette, was certainly an exercise in trying to do “the best we have ever done.” It was by far the most complex and involved project we have ever been involved with. There were a lot of key players that allowed this thing to even make it to the point of release. The 12″ and digital are forthcoming on TSLOS outta Chicago this spring… I ended up mastering the whole thing for all formats, and then subsequently was asked to release the tape. I gladly jumped on it, as it features some amazing talent: DJ Pain1, Kenny Segal, Vyle, and more. Lot’s of close producer friends too. It ended up with me mastering like 30 songs that spanned nearly 90 minutes. Then we pulled from that for the 25 song cassette edition with a bonus track. We were so grateful and lucky to sell it out, as it was pretty expensive, but so worth it. V8 and I handled the music stuff. His girl Vern Royale did the packaging, [and] she absolutely killed it. It’s the most intricate and in-depth packaging we have ever done. It took months to finalize everything, the custom cassette pouches, custom handkerchiefs, and such were all placed in take-out bags with receipts and all. Each one custom, numbered, and with lots of extra goodies. It was really hard at times, I didn’t think we would pull it off to be honest. Now, seeing all of the pics that folks are taking of their orders is the payoff. I really liked V8 and Vern’s concept of basically making a takeout meal of music and art. Thankfully my girl and label partner helped a ton with design layout and such, as I suck at it.

My point in telling you all of this is basically that I want people to know how important each release is for us. I always wanna keep pushing to do something different. This leads to my answer to your question [laughs]… Yes, I get pissed off when I see sub-par merch. I recently ordered a limited release, it was quite expensive. The record had no label to indicate Side A or Side B. I mean, if this were some obscure drone release I could get with it. It was not though, and the packaging was flimsy as well. To this day I have no idea which side is which. I’m not really trying to talk shit, it’s a good record; however, I think attention to detail is hella important, especially now with so many people releasing music.

EN: That V8 packaging was really something unique – had I been in a better financial position when it dropped I would have scooped that up. Seeing creative physical packaging is, honestly, one of my favourite things about the independent scene. Which leads me into asking: do you think artists should strive to be creative with their releases now that physical media is becoming more of an indie scene thing? It feels like physical media is shifting more towards being an art form, rather than a bare bones distribution method. And I’m curious about your thoughts on it.

MJC: That’s a cool question because I actually thought a lot about this over the last couple of weeks. Everything I spew about quality packaging, art-centric releases, and unique extras that create a “theme” of sorts with the physicals? These are all very true for me personally, and how I plan to move forward. We have some really weird shit in the works for FBR011 and FBR012 as far as design and concept. While all of these things are vital to our vision, it’s simply a matter of taste I think. At the end of the day, the music is the most important thing to me. Thus, I can’t really speak to how other artists should approach their releases.

I have some bare-bone 12″s and cassettes, as far as packaging, but it just works. A white label with an “A” stamped on it for example, nothing else. And the music speaks for itself, in some ways adding more flair may have taken away from what was trying to be conveyed musically (but this is different than just sending out un-labeled records that seem kinda sketchy, as I mentioned earlier). So really, I think it’s a matter of quality product no matter the aesthetic. As long the artist feels they have seen their vision through completely, that’s a successful release in my opinion. Having an idea and feeling that the physical or digital final product fully conveys. With FBR, things are very “artsy” right now [laughs], but if you see our Walter cassette it is bare-bones as fuck yet fits the music perfectly so we all thought.

Oh, and the reason I just used the word “digital” is that I think digital releases rule. I love them. And for someone with little to no overhead, packaging can be pricey and time consuming. Maybe trying things digitally first is a way for one to dip one’s toe into the waters of releasing music. We are beefing up our digital series big-time in 2017, coordinating a biggie right now. Digital is just as viable as physical is my take on it. Like you said though, people really like physical goods and cool art concepts that coincide with them. I suppose if one wants to go down the “limited art release” route, it is just a matter of developing said concept and deciding if it can be executed well. If so, go for it.

EN: I feel like you’re describing a very tasteful minimalist approach, and I think that has a lot of artistic merit for sure. Even going back a few decades, New Order’s first release after Joy Division ended was incredible that way. The cover was just the band name, album name, and catalogue number. It looked amazing.

You also just lead into the next thing on my notes! I wanted to ask, do you think there’s too much negativity toward “digital only” releases? I see a lot of people complain when there isn’t a physical, but digital ultimately seems like the easiest distribution method.

MJC: Bro, I have the Factory Records book (FAC451, they did it just like a record release) sitting on my coffee table! That’s funny you bring up New Order and Joy Division, the Factory Records aesthetic was so dope. Exactly, you nailed it with the “tasteful minimalism” for many of their releases. It was a huge influence to me. Cabaret Voltaire released on Factory I believe, one of my favourite bands ever. Somehow founding member Stephen Mallinder has become an internet “friend,” and he has done two guest mixes for us. All because of non-ego driven people just giving each other props years ago! I digress, but it’s just a cool coincidence.

Hell yes, I think people hate on digital-only releases sometimes and consider them less artistically valuable or some shit. No way, not in my opinion. Again, that’s why we are expanding our digital series over here at the label. Digital releases are awesome and just as viable as physicals for many reasons: One can still make awesome digital art for it, the music can be amazing, the overhead is basically nothing, and it can be downloaded immediately in all formats, even .wav! I hope we see more folks with larger labels start to do some digital-only stuff, if only to make it feel more approachable to someone starting out. I hope to see the digital platform utilized even further.

EN: Do you think iTunes gave digital releases a bit of a scummy aura back when they were the dominant platform? I remember buying tracks and having the quality being all over the place (even though it’s listed at equivalent to a 256kbs mp3). To me this has always stood out as a reason why digital is looked upon so negatively. Fortunately we’ve got outlets like BandCamp now.

Hell, iTunes in the early-mid 2000s was half the reason I relied on scummy shit like WinMX and Limewire, unfortunately.

MJC: I was the same. After about a year of novelty, iTunes disinterested me and I stopped using it. Yes, 256kbs threw me [too]. $9.99 for a DRM album of sub-par audio quality ain’t my thing [laughs]. I think people like us may be in a very small minority though, to be honest. Like, do you think the average listener knows the difference between downloading something from iTunes as opposed to Bandcamp? I seriously have no idea! From the fact that the artist gets paid more to the fact that the music is better quality, even CD quality if one chooses? Seriously, I have no idea. And every time I go to get digital distribution set up, I sorta just let it slack and forget for another six months [laughs].

I’m not hating on streaming, but at my level I prefer to have shit available via BandCamp only these days. As far as I know, it’s the best platform as far as paying out to the artist or label. Were I Faith Hill or MC Hammer though, I would likely be all up in Spotify’s guts. I still get shit from music friends about this. Maybe it will change soon, maybe I am just lazy… I think part of it is that I only want the music available on platforms that provide a minimum of 320kbs MP3s, but especially .FLAC and .WAV. Since firing our distributor two years ago it’s been just me until quite recently, and that was rough. Hence, my laziness in certain areas.

EN: Do you see potential in streaming as an option for small labels though? I’ll argue until I’m blue in the face about how flawed streaming can be, but it definitely seems to have intriguing capabilities.

MJC: I am probably the last person to ask about that [laughs]. I have never even explored it due to all the horror stories I have heard about how it is useless. However, I am open to learning more as I agree with you, there must be potential there. High-res streaming would be cool. Maybe exists, but I missed it. I was just talking with my girl and we will likely explore it in the future, but maybe only if things get to a large enough scale where it would be advantageous.

EN: [Laughs], I appreciate the honesty. It’s just an interesting subject. Streaming is definitely heading toward higher res, but the big issue is ultimately still royalty payouts. They’re incredibly low.

I’m going to go somewhere a little cheesy, but we’ve got a lot of aspiring indie label owners who check out the site regularly. What advice would you give to someone just starting out, like you were with FBR a handful of years ago?

MJC: There are more labels than people in the world [laughs]. I honestly was gonna say, “just don’t do it.” But that’s a dumb thing to say.

Look, running a record label is really hard work and there is not a big payoff if one is looking to get rich. It was not until 2016 that we were finally able to say we were in the black and able to fund future releases with sales. It took a couple of years and money was spent as we do a lot of physical releases. Things feel good now, thankfully, but I guess I would ask myself a few questions before making the decision to start a label:

1) Am I willing to struggle and work thanklessly for 10-16 hours a day, and even be working when I am not actually “working?”
2) Am I willing to put my own art aside in order to have the time to start things out properly?
3) Am I OK with rejection?
4) Am I OK if someone decides to fuck me over, will I maintain?
5) If things pick up, do I mind living at the post office and dealing with all the angry people behind me in line as well as irate postal workers?
6) Am I good dealing with a variety of personalities?
7) Am I cool with doing nine things at once all the time?
8) Will I reply in a timely manner to emails, texts and phone calls that come in all day?
9) Am I willing to take risks?
10) Am I willing to support other artists and labels?

I think if one answers “yes” to these ten questions, this could be for you. Or just do what I did, make a bad decision because music is life, and we are all gonna die so fuck it.

EN: Could you ever see yourself doing anything else, is is music where your heart is forever? As far as your main passion and focus in life, I mean.

MJC: Nah, I could never do anything else at this point. Seriously, I mean… I am gonna be 40 in a couple weeks. I never intended this, even though music has been a dominant force in my life as far back as I can remember. I went to university. I actually worked as a psychotherapist and administrator for both the public and private mental health systems for years. At the end I was seeing so many people die, and not improve due to bad policy and greed, so I quit. At that time it was to attempt getting back into writing and releasing on other labels. The experience was frustrating because I was being asked to make the same type of music I was making 10 years ago, so I went off on my own. Hence, FilthyBroke Recordings.

EN: Now onto something a little more current. You’ve got a compilation album coming out soon to benefit an anti-bullying organization. When and why did you decide to put this project together?

MJC: I will be totally honest: First off, I feel like we are currently dealing with the biggest bully in the world tearing people apart, dividing people. It is disgusting and sickening and even as a straight white man I am unable to process or accept what is happening. Secondly, I was relentlessly bullied as a kid. I moved when I was nine and was “the new kid.” Being beaten and laughed at without any intervention from those that were supposed to protect me has never left me, and it never will. I am not happy much of he time, often hate myself, and feel like no one actually cares about me sometimes. I know this not to be true in my head, but occasionally my gut says otherwise. I do not like seeing people hurting. I do not like the vulnerable being taken advantage of. I do not approve of bullying in any way, it ruins people. Donald Trump is a fucking bully. There are 70-year old women being detained in airports, as we speak, in 2017. Just no.

I’m not very good at many things, but this is a very serious and personal issue to me. The response to the compilation has been overwhelming, I am shocked. I feel like this may be an issue important to other people as well, thus we just want to donate all proceeds to Ditch the Label.

EN: As someone who also went through a lot of hellish bullying as a kid, I really respect and think it’s wonderful that you’ve taken the initiative. Seeing the response even from the outside has been touching to say the least. Do you see a lot of merit in music being used as a fundraiser? It seems like a really cool way to raise awareness and funds.

MJC: I do see a lot of merit in it, especially in that using art to raise money also raises awareness in and of itself… Like, the “product” that facilitates an ability to donate is music; music on its own is very powerful and certainly can deliver a message singularly. Just seemed so easy to try to do the compilation. Like you said though? About the response? People came out of the woodwork, no ego all positivity. People that I never would have thought of approaching… They seemed “out of my league” and I woke up to an inbox of songs donated from these amazing people. Mostly unsolicited aside from my tweet about wanting to do it. Some people give a fuck I guess, and that’s just amazing to me.

EN: I’m happy that it took off – I suggest to all of our readers to check this thing out when it drops, and support it if you can. We’re at about length. Is there anything else you’d like to say as we wrap this bad-boy up?

MJC: Just thank you for the best interview I have ever been a part of, for real. I needed that, thank you Dustin.

EN: Cheers, man. We’ll do another one for sure. You’ve got so much experience and insight into the music world that it’d be criminal for me to not have you on again.

MJC: Anytime.

Lightning Pill Discusses Experimental Music, Helping the Community Feel Heard, LGBT-music relations, and More

by Dustin

Sometimes you stumble across an artist that just has an aura about them that instantly signals they work on another level compared to most. Maybe they’re involved in social causes, maybe they’re workaholics, maybe they’re incredibly mentally dedicated to their craft and community, or maybe they’re all of the above. Such is this case with Lightning Pill. From experimental music crafting, to making sure others don’t feel left out in the cold, Lightning Pill is a lot of things to the do-it-yourself music community. We’ve been aware of his work for a while, and thanks to an introduction by IHeartNoise we’re able to provide an insight into the mind of one of the hardest working individuals you’ll ever have the chance to know.

Lightning Pill can be found on his Twitter, and website. His blog (mentioned in the interview) can be found at Revenge of the Persona Non Grata, and also at its official Twitter. Be sure to give him a look after you’ve finished reading this interview!

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EN: First and foremost man, thank you for joining us today. It’s an absolute pleasure. I’ve interviewed quite a few musicians, and I always love working with those who are socially conscious.

That being said, for those reading who may be unaware of you, how would you describe yourself?

Lightning Pill: I am a singer-songwriter who mainly plays keyboard. I take on multiple genres, all which fit underneath bedroom pop, antifolk, etc. I also make beats every now and then. On my downtime, I blog for Afropunk, IHeartNoise and Revenge of the Persona Non Grata, a blog I began focusing on avant-garde/DIY Hip hop, r&b, jazz and electronica.

I also write poems every now and then, but nowadays, poetry is molded into song.

EN: Did being a DIY artist yourself inspire an ambition to write about those forging a similar path musically?

Lightning Pill: Yes. Very much so. I’ve been in the music-making game for years, and found a correlation between most great DIY artists. They want Pitchfork and SPIN coverage and find themselves ignored despite putting out great work. I literally spent all year finding new music through Twitter recommendations and affiliations because, I wasn’t exactly messing with the recommendations of bigger labels. I understood the need to be on bigger platforms, but you don’t need to do that with blogs such as Afropunk helping.

The second album I put out to Afropunk as a DIY artist was Humanbeyondrepair, an album about having Asperger’s Syndrome. I didn’t have the money to tour, didn’t have a huge following, no labels, and so on, but they covered me. I wished more blogs would do that rather than creaming over the same bands they will slag on later.

Twitter is chock full of original musicians and small labels who want to spread their name with no real help from larger platforms. Since they are what I am, I can’t in good conscience make them feel like no one is paying attention. So, I started RPNG. Really it started as a blog for avant-hop, since there wasn’t a huge niche blog for that. Then it expanded into me giving love to smaller acts trying to get on 2DopeBoyz, Pitchfork or Consequence of Sound.

EN: That’s very similar to the reasoning why I started Extraordinary Nobodies. I really respect that at a personal level, but I have to ask: why do you think it is that major outlets turn their ears off to experimental and DIY music?

Lightning Pill: It feels related as why major labels sign experimental acts: if you are engaging, accessible and at least sound like you have a chance in hell in the mainstream or something, then you are “in”. That’s bullshit too, considering that there are some great acts that do have a fighting chance at connecting with the general public.

It feels like going to high school and the “cool kids” either ignore or bully the weirder kids, only to find that they envy them. Acts like SassyBlack (formerly of THEESatisfaction), and even AJ Suede, can’t be found on 2DopeBoyz even though the music has a chance of reaching the public. Only one clipping. song can be found there, too. People are likely to turn a blind eye to artists that don’t have a huge following, and you get a huge following through either celebrity-based nepotism or “accessibility” within the industry.

Perfect examples are rappers and singers within Deathbomb Arc, one of my favorite labels. Excluding clipping., rappers like Signor Benedick, Hareld and They Hate Change don’t get the attention they worked for in their fields despite being really original and talented artists. They deserve to be known in the same corner as Death Grips and Kendrick Lamar. I had to take matters into my hands and write about They Hate Change and True Neutral Crew in Afropunk. Their coverage would probably still be fairly minuscule, if they hadn’t known that I write for them.

EN: Are there any other acts out there that you especially think aren’t getting the attention they deserve, or is it basically the DIY/experimental community as a whole that’s being ignored?

Lightning Pill: It’s a funny thing. If they do get coverage, TheNeedleDrop and Pitchfork are the ones doing it. Still though, a good amounts of the DIY community pretty much live by their wits. Artists like DijahSB got into music and despite how great her music is I don’t even see Aftopunk covering her, and I sent in a blog about her Blue album.

EN: So, running your own publication very much came out of a place of frustration.

Lightning Pill: It started as a way to fill in the niche that 2DopeBoyz and XXL didn’t, couldn’t or won’t touch. It snowballed into a frustration that I shared with artists over making great music but not getting attention despite how “great” they are. This inspired me to take the reins, and I encourage many others to use the blog as a way to give back to your community. The moment I started the blog, I had plenty of artists say they loved my writing. JPEGMAFIA even said my kind of journalism and research rivals that of empty journalists and music critics today, which made me happy. I’ve even had plenty of people approach me to write something for them. I had no right to turn them down because I was, and still am, them.

Type in THEESatisfaction, milo, F. Virtue, Cakes Da Killa, or clipping. in 2DopeBoyz and watch it come up with nothing. The only real explanation I can find is that their blog mostly focuses on artists who aren’t too experimental, as to gain a huge following.

While I am here, I do want to shout out one slightly well-known blog that does what I do: UGSMAG. They cover nothing but that underground shit. Some avantgarde stuff, too. That blog, and the dearly-missed Potholes in My Blog, inspired me to write the blogs I do.

EN: Do you find it difficult to balance your personal life, music, and working on other projects such as journalism?

Lightning Pill: Only because when I get into these projects, I REALLY get into it. When I write about projects, I listen to 5 albums a day. After that, I find myself wondering when I’ll have enough juice and focus to put into my music. When I do music, I get really into it too. It gets hard because I don’t do any of this to merely half-ass it. I’m in it for the long haul… Even if I don’t get paid for doing any of it. That’s how committed I am to what I do. As for my personal life, people know good and well I don’t sit on my bed and do nothing. I’m always working on something to occupy my time. Whether it be hobby or not, I do it because I find fulfillment in it.

Admittedly, it does get hard making sure that when I am head deep in one thing, I don’t neglect the other.

EN: Throughout the year I saw you getting a lot of love from various outlets and labels, such as Deathbomb Arc for instance. How much does it mean to you to know that what you’re doing is being noticed?

Lightning Pill: Man, it means a lot! Imagine years of making music only to find out that I’ve got fans purely from being deep into the underground. This wouldn’t have been possible without Ilya of IHeartNoise, who heard me and has been hyping up my instrumental works, mostly. But since I started pushing everything, not one person has told me my stuff sucked. One dude did, but that was on a couple of fun bars over Jonwayne beats that got a lot of attention, and got me followed by Jonwayne himself.

The Deathbomb Arc thing had me taken aback because I’m a big supporter of the label. The reason being that Deathbomb is one of few labels that aim to surprise you with every artist they add to their roster. So when they asked me about doing a song for them, I was like “what?!”.

I have fans in Ceschi, Dionne Sheree, Ilya, They Hate Change, and plenty in the DIY/experimental (mostly hip hop) community. I feel blessed and it makes me want to work hard to see to it my next few albums and mixtapes don’t suck.

EN: On that note, do you think more artists need to take a second to step back and enjoy the small scale love they receive, rather than desperately trying to “make it big”?

Lightning Pill: In a short answer, yes.

In a long answer, I understand why people want to get big. They do it for money, for attention, to reach people and change the landscape of music. Everyone has reasons as to why they want to get famous. But even if I don’t ever reach the stratosphere, it’s still heartening to know I have a cult following. I do music everyday and never get paid, but it makes me want to keep going knowing people are waiting for my next work.

I was one of those people who wanted to do music to get paid for it. But the more I made music the more I slowly accepted I may never get paid, or that I may never get known to the level that, say, Atmosphere is. But even having a little fans may give me a new perspective. Perhaps making music for them will lead to them spreading the word and finding out that my music can get better and reach people who aren’t just blindly following me. Some people will become Jay-Z and Lil Wayne and some people will be Atmosphere and Run the Jewels. Either way, just knowing one person loves your work is heartening. All one has to do is keep going and keep making your best stuff, keep trying to one up yourself and watch people slowly reveal that they have been a fan of yours.

I think in time I understand why people say that knowing people love your work and are waiting for the next one is better than money. Often times, if people really love and support you, they’ll pay for it when it is for sale. I’d be just fine being the next Ariel Pink, Dam-Funk or Captain Beefheart. People should take any blessing that may come their way in the form of true love and appreciation for what you do.

EN: I noticed on the RPNG Twitter, you note things such as being a LGBT friendly site. I think that is awesome, and I wanted to ask how important it is to you to be open in your support of such causes?

Lightning Pill: Very much so, seeing as how there are a lot of gay rappers in existence. One of the first I found back in high school was Deep Dickollective, helmed by Juba Kalamka. Their music is basically conscious hip hop from a gay man’s point of view. Since then, I found rappers like Melange Lavonne, God-Des and She, and more recently Cakes Da Killa, LE1F, Mykki Blanco, Abdu Ali and F. Virtue. All of them are getting shunned from larger hip hop for being gay, and hardly ever pushed towards a straight demographic. They are part of the reason why I stretched my blog towards people who just plain can’t get bigger attention over stupid shit.

I read in SPIN Magazine that Juba heard some sites pull the “there’s nothing we can do” stance for making gay music more mainstream… To this day, the only gay rapper the world can even mention is Frank Ocean, who only spit a few bars on a few songs.

It’s very important to notice all dimensions of music in general. People need to stop being brand new about rappers just because it doesn’t fit their universe. I just told Cakes Da Killa, “people would rather hear some mediocre ass dude spit bars than to hear you rap. That should change!” That stemmed from me praising clipping. for having Cakes Da Killa on a track, and working with an actual gay rapper. I couldn’t give less of a single fuck about a person’s sexuality. If you got true bars and can stand out musically, fuck everything else.

I cover LGBT rappers, Christian rappers, anyone who can bring something truly fresh to the table.

EN: Do you think that someone like Fly Young Red, who basically turned the gay rap scene into a meme with “boy pussy” did more harm than good for the LGBT community in hip-hop?

Lightning Pill: Eh… I think we should be past the whole “harm and good thing”, seeing as how there are multiple dimensions of anything LGBT. Where there are people who make gay people look hypersexual, there are people putting a good name on it. It’s the same as black people showing they have respect and intelligence among ratchets thinking they are acting white.

Of course it is doing “harm” as it is showing gay people as hypersexual, rather than people who have more to talk about than just that. You know? But, the same can be said about demands that Nicki Minaj and Rhianna be less aggressive with sexuality in their music. They are doing nothing more than being a mirror for the culture we live in. The only difference is straight people make AIDS and femininity jokes, while giving or getting AIDS from the next girl with a fat ass and a pretty face. Where there is a Fly Young Red, there’s a Cupcakke or multiple amounts of dudes talking about running a train on your girlfriend.

That’s just the way it is, but the ones who have yet to see it that way are straight people.

EN: That’s a great approach to conceptualizing it. My cousin (who is big into LGBT activism, with her girlfriend) has already remained conflicted on people like Fly Young Red, so I thought it’d be interesting to get another perspective.

I’m also very curious on your thoughts about hyper-masculinity in hip-hop. I interviewed Kash Jordan last year, and he really wanted to see hip-hop move away from the trend of hyper-masculine music. Do you share that sort of view?

Lightning Pill: Yeah, and as fast as possible. Back in the day, they said hip hop was for the outsiders and hip hop is revolutionary. If that’s true, then why are all these masculine-ass drunk dudes with guns taking over the game? At the end of the day to me, they are more rap than hip hop. The difference between the two is like the difference between rock, alternative, and punk.

Hyper-masculinity is doing a lot of harm, in that it is controlling the idea that men don’t have feelings. We are hyper-violent, hyper-sexual ne’er do wells with hella masculinity problems anyway. Even worse, some people encourage this shit. I thank God for Kash Jordan and Young Thug aiming to tear that shit down, because hyper-masculinity is a fucking facade. All the way. Show me a man who flexes their manhood like diamonds, and I’ll show you a weak dude who probably wishes he was as brave as LGBT types and hides insecurity with a gun or an equally masculine girlfriend. Or show me a dude who talks shit to other rappers, and you’ll see a woman revealing him to be a “fingerinthebootyassbitch”.

Hyper-masculinity is stupid because it denies that men have a feminine side, which they do. Everyone has a little bit of something. Every man has a bit of femininity and every woman has a bit of masculinity. Point blank! It’s just a matter of when you bring it out, at what time, for what. You know? It gets dangerous, if not tricky, when there’s a clear imbalance of the two, but what can one do about that? You know?

EN: Yeah, I get what you mean – in a lot of ways it seems like hip-hop as a whole is going through a bit of an identity crisis, don’t you think? Like, there’s the hyper-masculine old guard, then this new wave struggling (but trying) to break that binary but facing resistance.

Lightning Pill: It is, but it is necessary. They say music dies when you put out the same shit and things get hella stale… Actually, I wouldn’t call it an identity crisis. Maybe an exploration to see all of what hip hop and rap can actually be and do. It’s a revelation of different dimensions of hip hop that was mostly just banished to the underground. It’s intriguing, and long overdue.

EN: That brings me to my next question, what is your biggest gripe with hip-hop currently? Is it the hyper-masculine environment, or something else?

Lightning Pill: My frustration with hip-hop mostly lies in people’s thought that hip-hop should be one-sided, hypocritical and ignorant of their influence. The same people who admit being influenced by Biggie and Tupac are the same dudes who say that their music is “just music” when they get called out on their ignorance. Anytime these people say they don’t want to be role models, I respect that; but, if they didn’t want to be role models, then they should never have gotten famous… Where everyone can see them and learn from them.

Wherever there’s a person just trying to get a check, there are a group of kids on the bus talking about “smoking dicks”. And the parents only care when there’s music that disturbs the general idea of how society is. They are no less ignorant than anyone else. To them, mainstream music is the only music there is, until someone busts out a hip-hop album that’s better and possibly more revolutionary. The trouble with mainstream rap is that people always think “this is how it is”, and that’s bullshit. There is always more to the world than what people see… Or maybe their ignorance is willful. Either way, I hate that hip-hop wants to use their ignorance as a crutch for why some of them just want to make money and don’t want their music to do anything else. Once you are on the Billboard, you are a fucking role model to someone! Deal with it!

Also, I am not entirely comfortable that entertainment has an upper hand over education at times because of how catchy and gripping the music is. People think all you got to do in music is make hits about what you know and don’t know, but how many of them even know how to play an instrument? How many of them studied the music business to figure out how to get ahead other than just making hits? Kids are like sponges. They learn from artists because in their eyes, artists and entertainers are more intriguing. That’s their escape, and it eventually turns into their education whether they believe it or not. So, when something like hyper-masculinity is a thing, more men are being taught that that is what being a man is. We both know that is absolute bullshit and a complete detriment to their sense of humanity.

EN: It sounds a lot like you want prominent musicians to realize that they’re role models and use that elevated status more wisely.

Lightning Pill: Do they have a choice? They are literally in the face of the general public. Men, women and children of all ages, sexes and creeds see them. They don’t have to completely change themselves, but if that’s what they want to maintain, then they have the option of embracing the private life of others. Hell, they could be underground where you can be anything or anyone and nobody can censor you. Hell, Cupcakke is a rapper who has turned down a LOT of record label offers to do it herself, which might afford her some lowkey privacy compared to much bigger types. As soon as you are eligible for Teen Choice Awards, you should expect eyes on you. Not just in terms of fame, but in having loyal “followers” in every sense of the word. It is inevitable and raging against it would be hella useless.

Though, I wouldn’t have minded much if Cupcakke went bigger because I predict her time infront of the spotlight will be spent offering something for the kids as well as adults.

EN: So, transitioning to something a little more about you as an artist. What can we expect from you in the coming year both musically and otherwise?

Lightning Pill: I have been told multiple times to never tell people things before they are done, or before they happen… But, I have two albums and a long mixtape coming up next year. The long mixtape is called Cincuenta, which I can say is my only truly guaranteed project. The rest might fall to the wayside if I lose motivation and seek to do other things musically. But Cincuenta is a yes for next year.

As for performances? I am working on performing more, and maybe testing out Concert Window or my own YouTube concert inspired by Couch by Couchwest.

EN: I like that you’re always trying innovative things like the concept of a YouTube concert. Have you ever released any physical copies of your music? If not, do you plan to?

Lightning Pill: I haven’t. I wish I had the funds to construct physical stuff. I’m still trying to find labels interested in releasing either cassettes or CDs. For now, it all remains digital. Though, I recently talked to Become Eternal, and if all goes well, they will make cassettes of my old ambient work. So, stay tuned there!

EN: A bit of a random question here, but my curiosity is eating me alive. Where’d you get the name Lightning Pill, and what’s the meaning behind it?

Lightning Pill: I have two explanations for this, both of which actually fit. One day I was walking home listening to Patrick Wolf’s The Magic Position, this whole time I pictured him as this glam folktronic figure. I was already trying to work out a sound that’s like folk music using electronic instruments, as opposed to using electronic instruments to manipulate the sound of folk instruments. I have a tendency to put myself in artist’s shoes to keep my imagination going, and I named myself Lightning Pill.

I thought about it a little further another day when I remembered seeing a cartoon where all of the farm animals ate the pills that were supposed to control the weather. If an animal ate a sunny pill, the sun shines out of your stomach. If you are a rainy pill, a rain-cloud will constantly follow you. If you ate a thunder and lighting pill, your insides will get shocked.

So, my name is a bit more extroverted than my music is willing to match, but Lightning Pill stuck around longer than Charcoal Sketches of the Invisible Man (a name I was now willing to use when in a band or collaborating with an artist).

EN: Alright my man, we’re basically at length for this interview. So my last question is, is there anyone you’d like to shout-out, and show some love to, to close things off?

Lightning Pill: The most important person I have to shout out is Ilya of IHeartNoise. If it wasn’t for him, who knows if, one, I’d be making music, two, you’d know that I made music and three, I’d be blogging or sticking with the idea of making experimental music. He was the first ever person who had not only been blogging about my music, but actually championed and listened to my work. Not to mention, on Twitter, he constantly shouts me out to people looking for new music, new writers and all of that. Without that, who knows if you’d be here talking to me. Who knows if I would be getting as much blessings as I do now?

I’d also like to thank those who have listened to my music, read my tweets, and checked out any recommendations I had sent their way. I’m doing my very best not to let anyone down. It’s a hard process, but I didn’t adopt a workaholic persona for nothing. Thank you to all reading.

The Media That Refuses to Die: Cassette

by Dustin

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“What is that?” my buddy asks as I pull another parcel from the mailbox, “don’t tell me you’re still collecting music”.

You see, my friend doesn’t quite understand the point of collecting physical media when it comes to music. He sees CDs and vinyl as a waste of money when I’ve already got a Spotify subscription. The argument that I want better sound quality usually shuts him up, since streaming can be questionable at times in that regard.

Unfortunately that argument will not work with this shipment.

My friend remains interested as I rip apart the yellow envelope from Darling Recordings. I explained to him that the album is by a really cool experimental group called FLANCH. He seems interested in the sound and implies that he would like to listen to it once I finish my painfully slow unwrap job; however, his interest turns to confusion as I reveal the contents of the envelope.

He looks at me and his face screws up into an indescribable expression. In a moment of baffled realization he asks the question, “is that a fucking cassette?”

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Though this may sound ridiculous to some, cassette has seen a huge resurgence in the past couple years via the independent scene. The companies which produce cassette tapes are reportedly having their best years since the 1960s. For example, the National Audio Company reportedly produced over ten million cassettes in 2014 alone. For something once considered defunct this is a huge comeback, and it is almost rooted entirely in the independent music scene.

But why? To help answer that question we touched base with Nick Faidley. Nick is the founder of independent label Darling Recordings, an outfit which has released multiple cassettes (including FLANCH, mentioned earlier in this article). He offered up the following insight as to why cassettes have seen such a heavy revival:

Darling Recordings has turned to tapes for the many of the same reasons as other independent labels and musicians: cassettes are low cost, low hassle, and easy for bands to use on the merch table. For us it’s really that simple. Tapes are affordable at low quantities, unlike vinyl (incredibly expensive) and CDs (large minimum orders), and they can be completely DIY.

Darling runs its cassette manufacturing with a wonderful company out of Ohio called A to Z Audio.

As Nick stated, cost is a huge factor. Unlike major outfits, most independent labels only do limited releases for physical editions of records. These are generally in the 20-100 copies range. The price per unit for limited runs is cheaper on cassette than any other physical media; moreover, a price per unit quote (on a 100 album order) from a Canadian duplication company shows that the difference is extreme:

CD with Jewel Case and Insert: $4.90/each
Vinyl Record with Colour Cover: $9.00/each
Cassette with Clear Case and J-Card Insert: $1.85/each

Cassette is the clear cut choice based on cost alone, and for small independent labels every dollar counts. Perhaps physical media is no longer a necessity with the rise of digital distribution, but fans will always be looking to get their hands on merch. Cassettes are a cost effective way to provide this to fans (whether it be online, in a record store, or at a show). In addition to it being good for the label, cassette releases are generally cheaper for the consumer as well. It’s very much a win-win for those interested.

Though more subjective, there’s also a collectible feel to cassettes that seems to offer up a lot of appeal. There’s certainly a degree of nostalgia involved to a particular generation, but to others they just seem “cool”. They’re just so much different when compared to CDs and vinyl. Cassettes have a particular minimalistic and rugged appearance that seems to draw a certain crowd in. Even the listening experience, though maybe not the best in terms of sound quality, is incredibly unique. The tape hiss, the sound of the cassette deck mechanism, the sudden jarring click when a side runs out…

It’s something that can’t really be compared to anything other music media, for better or worse.

Interestingly, this wave of cassette revival has become big enough that some major labels have started to jump on the bandwagon. A recent example of this is Shady Records re-issuing Eminem’s major imprint debut, The Slim Shady LP, on a translucent purple cassette. To no ones surprise, the re-issue was incredibly popular. It doesn’t seem like this will be a regular trend such as vinyl releases, but it definitely speaks to the size of cassettes resurgence.

For all intents and purposes cassette should be dead, but it’s not. They’ve found their way back into the music scene by carving a niche which no other media can really occupy. What cassette lacks in sound quality it more than makes up for in affordability, making them the ultimate budget merchandise. It’s a revival that maybe no one expected, but it’s working out beautifully for artists around the globe.

So, the next time you see a cassette just remember: your uncle who owns a Mustang from the 1980s with a tape-deck isn’t the only person looking to buy cassettes anymore.

East Coast Rapper MCrv Discusses Life as a Working Class Hip-Hop Artist

by Dustin

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The east coast has been a powerhouse in rap for as long as the genre is old. Under the surface, the east coast has developed some of the most unique underground acts of all time. Of these, Definitive Jux was one of the most notable throughout the 2000s. Lead by independent hip-hop star El-P, the Jux crew was consistently putting out their unique brand of experimental east coast rap.

Nearly seven years after the label was put on indefinite hiatus, those influenced by Definitive Jux are starting to find their own voice in hip-hop. MCrv is one of these rappers. A student of the independent hip-hop scene, MCrv spoke with us on life as a working class rapper, balancing family life, and how he sees his own music.

Read the interview below, and then go ahead and check out MCrv on Twitter, Bandcamp, and Facebook.
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EN: I figure we should probably start with the basics to help people learn about you as an artist, if that’s okay with you. How long ago was it that you started rapping, and how did you get interested in it?

MCrv: I started rapping when I was about 15. I’m 25 now… So, ten years I guess. I didn’t really take it serious until I was 20 or 21. It was just for fun with two friends of mine, Dan and Tony. We we bored teenagers, [and] I was like: “lets make a rap song”.

Dan played drums, Tony did bass, and I rapped. They were [just] dumb songs about high school and partying. we stopped after five six songs until I turned 17 and a friend gave me a copy of Hell’s Winter and Labor days and I found out these dudes were making music themselves and rapping about all sorts of shit. I was fascinated. So my senior year of high school (2008-2009) I started learning how to use GarageBand and [my keyboard], and writing lyrics. And [I was also] discovering more artists on Definitive Jux and Rhymesayers, and anyone they collaborated with.

Some of my first ideas were made at the school computers in Manville High. Once I learned I could record at home, I was obsessed with saving for my own studio. [However], before I graduated I got into some trouble with my parents about abusing prescription pills. I left my parents house moved in with my grandparents because there was so much tension; everyone thought I had addiction problems. It was more experimental, but it didn’t matter [because] I broke their trust… It was hard after high school. I ended up doing out-patient rehab before I left New Jersey, and learned a lot about addicts. [I] realized I had potential to end up down that road, but never had the desire.

While all this drama was going on I kept [trying] ideas on my Yamaha keyboard, and recording vocals in Audacity with a ten dollar mic. I would record my beats off the keyboard speakers into Audacity then record my vocals [to] hear my ideas.

Some time went by and I decided to move to New York state with some family after living in New Jersey for 18 years. [Mostly] to start fresh and find some solid ground, since things were rough with my immediate family. I got a job and stayed focused on saving money. Within a year I saved enough money to buy myself an iMac and Pro Tools! I also picked up an Axiom 49 and I started to teach myself how to record using Pro Tools when I was about 19.

EN: That’s pretty crazy, so now have you got yourself a little home-studio setup? I noticed listening to your tape that it was super clean quality wise, moreso than I notice from a lot of rappers on the do-it-yourself path.

MCrv: Yeah, I have my own set up at home, and thank you. I’ve worked really hard to show progress in the quality of my music. My set up is realy simple: two monitors, an interface, an Axiom 49, and I switched recently from Pro Tools to Logic which has been great. I have a mic that I record my rough vocals on at home, but for all my final vocal tracks and final mixing I go to my friend Jim Servedio at his home studio and he puts his ears and hands in… He actually sold me my equipment when I moved to New York six years ago, and he’s been helping me with my mixes and recording ever since. [Jim] has been working with music and studios for almost 30 years, and we have a natural chemistry in the studio as far as what we are looking for sound wise. It hasn’t been easy, but he’s been patient and has allowed me to grow at my own pace.

EN: It’s great you’ve got a bit of a mentor in that regard though; to me, it seems like audio quality holds back a lot of young artists. You’ve already surpassed that hurdle. Moving onto influences for a moment, I remember when I first messaged you we talked about Colors and Sounds having a bit of an early Definitive Jux sound. You kind of came up on artists from that era and roster, correct?

MCrv: I’m [just] really lucky to have Jim. He has helped me so much… I don’t think I would know as much about the actual process of music making if it weren’t for him.

Yeah, I feel like I got really into it all when None Shall Pass, I’ll Sleep When You’re Dead and Depart From Me were still fresh. People started realizing there was more to underground rap than what they previously thought. At least that was my take [on it].

EN: Man, you had to go and name drop I’ll Sleep When You’re Dead haha. That’s my favorite album of all time, by far. It got me through a really rough period in life. Anyway, more to the point. You’ve definitely got influences, but your style is very much your own. Is it important for you to develop a unique sound for yourself?

MCrv: That album helped me a lot too! [Particularly] during my teen years and early twenties. “The Overly Dramatic Truth” [off I’ll Sleep When You’re Dead] still brings me back to those feelings.

And yeah, it is very important for me to have a unique sound for myself. That’s what drew me to Def Jux so much. Each dude had their own style [and] their own niche that I could get lost in and appreciate. I study those things, and have found what I like in myself. I [try to] bring [that] out in my music, and find my own signature traits that make MCrv, MCrv.

I still find it fascinating that you were able to dissect my influences based on my music, because anyone who knows me, like my close friends, if you asked [them] “what rapper or label does mcrv appreciate?”, they would say Aesop Rock, Def Jux, or Rhymesayers [laughs].

EN: Ah man, when I heard it the first time I was like this dudes got a super unique sound but at the same time there’s a flavor to this music that I recognize. So I spun it again, and then put on Bazooka Tooth I think and I was like holy shit, he sounds like he could have been a Def Jukie back in the day [laughs].

MCrv: Dude, thats crazy! I told myself when I made Colors and Sounds that this was my Bazooka Tooth [laughs].

EN: Then at that point, because that’s where my music tastes are pretty firmly I needed to talk to you for the site [laughs]. Like, I feel that even though Def Jux was pretty big, you don’t see a lot of the new generation building on that sound. (even thought the indie scene is strong as ever). Would you agree?

MCrv: I would totally agree. I feel I hear a lot of underground and commercial elements mixed together in a lot of the new generation stuff. I feel like there is a lot of risk in the music those [Def Jux] artists put out. There is meaning in their every sound and word. The messages and subject matters are like nothing any other artists have touched. There is a very peculiar way they’ve made music that I really don’t hear in others.

EN: I guess you’re somewhat of a revivalist in that way then, because it feels like that era ended so abruptly [laughs]. So tell me a bit about the process of your album, how long did you work on it and such?

MCrv: [Laughs] That’s a sweet thought… Trust me, I would love to see that label shine through again. I’m no savior though, I just know who I have to pay my respects to because those dudes showed me life pretty much… They taught me about life.

I worked on Colors and Sounds for about a year. I recorded everything at home… I made all the beats first and then wrote each song. [I] rehearsed them at home, and once I knew them well enough I took them to Jims house. We mixed the beats there, [and] then I record my vocals in his booth and we sat and mixed them in together. We’d usually go back a few days later and mix [again], and then once we were happy with [it] we’d do a little mastering.

[Occasionally] I write lyrics before the beat, but most of the time I make a beat then write the song. I enjoy creating the scene first. The little world all this shit is about to be said in, [and] then I just say it.

EN: Was there a particular place the album came from emotionally, or were you creating purely on your drive to make music?

MCrv: I had made eight songs before Colors and Sounds. They were about my depression, my separation from my family, and songs about how I found music and how I made it home. Colors and Sounds was kind of my acceptance of all that, [plus] realizing I got past it and can move on. I was able to deal with my depression with certain songs like “Bangarang” and “When the Heart Unfolds”.

Other times I wanted to have fun and be creative like “Spacemandude – A Galactic Tale” where I came up with a story for “Spacemandude” who’s like a secret-agent-spaceman, [and his] rival “Supreme Cream”.

Then there is an actual love song called “Unexpected Beauty” that I made for my girlfriend, who is also the mother of my beautiful daughter. [This] later led to “Say Grace”, which is the last track on the album. I made [it] for my daughter Ramona Grace.

Emotionally I was everywhere a little bit. Us expecting a child changed my attitude and mindset from focusing on how to feel better about my surroundings and current being, to realizing I’m going to be a father.

EN: Is there a goal for you, as far as evolution as an artist? Do you want your sound to continually grow and evolve with each release?

MCrv: Yes of course, I feel growing and making progress is very important to me. In all aspects really. [From] the actual recording and technical parts, to actually capturing my feelings with instruments, to allowing myself to try new rhyme schemes. I feel I have evolved with each release. Every time I make a new project (or collection of songs) my goal is to not just make it better than what I previously made, but to [also] implement the new things I’ve learned. And also to do some of the things I didn’t fit in on the previous project.

I feel like my evolution has been real natural, and I make what I feel comfortable with.

EN: That’s really admirable, to feel comfortable with the sound you’ve developed but still be focused on evolving naturally. What’s next for you, do you think? Do you hope to release more albums going forward?

MCrv: Yeah, I’ve felt like I’ve developed my own style. I know what my beats sound like, and I know how they could sound if I keep making progress like I intend.

Right now I’m about to record a five song EP I have been working on. A friend of mine helped with some of the instrumentation for each song. I played with some random ideas when I first got Logic, and he would hear what I had so far and add a part. Then I would fit that in, and build the track. I plan on releasing it sometime early fall. Its called Cluttered Souls. Its probably my favorite thing I’ve made so far… there are a couple songs on there were I feel I stepped out of my box and spoke up.

Also I’ve been working on new beats. I’m constantly working on something. I don’t get a lot of beats sent to me. I have a few friends who I have some things in the works with, but nothing really solid. I have a few singles I wanna release too. Just some different things I have been experimenting with. So really I’m just continuing my journey…

I think my next real goal is to make an album. I have one planned out and am very excited to start building solid foundations. I have ideas already rolling, but that’s probably what will consume most of my time after summer is out and the seasons change.

EN: I saw on your Facebook that you do some live shows. What’s that experience like for you as an independent artist?

MCrv: Its been pretty awesome to perform. I’ve done a bunch of open mics around central New York and those have been fun. Its usually really quiet and I’m use to being the only rap act. Most of the time its people singing with an acoustic, singing behind a track, or reading poetry. When I wait my turn to go up I get anxious and excited, ’cause its my chance to change things up and create a new environment for ten minutes. People are pretty respectful. There isn’t a lot rapping, like I said, so its cool to see people listen and nod or move a little to the music even if rap isn’t their thing.

I did an open mic one night in Binghamton and I felt really good about my performance. My only goal that night was to have fun and feel good about my songs. I did just that and it went very well. This dude Chris who writes for the Carousel Paper asked me if I wanted to open for this band, Telekinetic Walrus, so I took that opportunity. That was fun too. I’m pretty private about things. I don’t have a lot of friends I have a few close ones, and if everyone has to work (including my girlfriend) I’m on my own [laughs]. So it was me [with] my backpack, some CDs, and a laptop with my set in a playlist. I met some people and greeted everyone then I sat quietly in the bar drinking a glass of water [laughs].

I don’t drink or go to bars so everyone’s drinking around me and I’m sitting there alone listening to music. When it came time to go up, I introduced myself and interacted with the people. Everyone was really loud [laughs], they were all drinking and socializing. They didn’t know me or what I had to offer so when I started doing my songs it was loud… Not to mention the sound man had no monitors for us to hear ourselves (let alone care about how anything sounded) so it was hard to hear my music.

I did feel really good about my performance and making sure the people were still with me in some way despite the fact they couldn’t care less about what I was doing [laughs]. There were a few people who were really interested and listening to what I was saying though. I had a guy come up to me and thank me for what I did. He told me he really related and heard where I was coming from. We talked for a bit about how much time it takes to make music and all that then asked me for a CD, and a few other people grabbed CDs. Its been a pretty good experience so far. I really focus on performing my best and approaching people with a sincere and clear presence to get them to feel something.

EN: Is it intimidating to put yourself out there, in live shows, as a smaller-scale independent artist?

MCrv: Initially it was. A lot of that was because all my music and performing falls on me. I would be nervous because I had doubt’s like “what could one dude doing all this on his own have to offer people”? But once I got more comfortable with myself and people’s reactions when I perform, I realized there was nothing to be afraid of except not continuing to grow as an artist and overcoming [those] fears.

I mean, certain aspects are still intimidating. I’m not very well known or anything. When people go from listening to a song or two, then all I hear is talking during my performance, it kinda crushes you a bit… But, I try not to let it discourage me too much. Plus there are usually a few people who really are paying attention. All I can do is my best, and appreciate the time I get.

Which I do, very much [laughs].

EN: As a working class rapper, do you find it hard to balance other responsibilities while also finding time to work on your art?

MCrv: Yeah, sometimes it is difficult to balance everything. My girlfriend and I both work full time. The days she works late it is just my daughter and myself at home. Once I’m outta work I make sure the house is picked up, my animals are fed and watered, and I make sure my daughter is happy and full at all times.

Its been a bit of an adjustment since I’ve become a father. I could have plans to work on a beat or write and if Ramona needs to be fed, or she just simply wants me to hold her I put my music aside until I feel she is content. I wouldn’t trade any of it for anything though.

It’s hard work coming home from a job, raising a family, and trying to build something that’s going to last a lifetime (or at least hope it does), but it’s all worth it. I feel all the responsibility and pressure has helped me grow as a person. I have been able to value my personal time, and the time I have with my family. Once you find a routine (and make changes to that routine as new things arise) that sense of fulfillment is like no other. At least that’s what I’ve come to learn.

I’ve always been pretty disciplined with my music making and managing my time. Ask any of my friends [laughs]. They haven’t seen me in two months because I’m focused on my next project. I write myself lists of what I need with each song, and ideas I want to incorporate so I don’t have to think about it as much when I’m not working on them. Any little thing I can do to help keep organized I try to utilize.

EN: I respect that so much, the determination to still put in work musically while making sure your daughter comes first. That’s something I can never say anything bad about. Okay, now I’ve gotta ask the question I ask everyone as we wrap this up. Who are your five dream collaborations, dead or alive?

MCrv: I appreciate that man, thank you.

[Laughs] I’ve never thought about that much. I’m always like “my heroes don’t wanna fuck with me” [laughs]. Aesop Rock for sure. I always dreamed about him rapping on one of my tracks when I felt I was ready. I don’t think I’ll ever be ready [laughs].

I would also love to do a song with Blueprint. He’s been someone I listen to and followed for years. 1988 was an album I rapped along to when I really started taking song crafting more serious.

MF DOOM as well. I love all his music no matter what alias.

I would really love to do a song with Busdriver. That dude has the craziest beats and flows and I feel like that would be a challenge.

Blockhead would be another one for me. He use to make beats for Aesop, and has made great instrumental projects and other collaborative albums that rock.

EN: Ah man, I know I said we were closing it up but I have to ask this too because I’m a huge Busdriver fan and I see so little discussion about him. What’s your favorite album of his? I’ve been in love with Perfect Hair since it dropped, and Temporary Forever is a classic.

MCrv: Oh man, I really love both those albums. RoadKillOverCoat is probably my favorite album by Busdriver, [it has] so many great songs. Thumbs was great as well one of the best albums of 2015 hands down.

EN: Thumbs was dope too! I actually bought the cassette release of it, it’s pretty sick. Alright man, it’s time for the final question, but first I’d just like to really thank you again for doing this. If you had to describe what you bring to the table as a rapper (to convince someone to listen) what would you say?

MCrv: Well thank you my man for taking the time to get to know me a little, and [for] taking interest in the music and process. I very much appreciate it, its been fun having you throw questions at me.

To answer your question, I would have to say change. I usually write about things I’m going through or circumstances that need to change or evolve if you will. I am always striving to make natural progress with what I have in this life, and change is a part of that on a constant basis. I feel each song I tackle something I’m adjusting to, or I am accepting about the world or myself.

When I finish a song I feel grounded. I feel like the person I know I can be, want to be, and will be as long as I continue to learn and make adjustments (change) when necessary. I’ve always been a dude to make plans with set times and deadlines. That works to a degree, but there is always a natural flow of things and left turns to be made when least expected.

Singer/Producer SWISH discusses breaking expectations, influences, and dream collaborations

by Dustin

swish

Sometimes an artist has something about them that causes your ears to perk up. A unique sound, or perhaps some extra creative flavor to their music that you can’t ignore. SWISH is one of these artists. Her music is soulful, fun at times, and rich. Behind her powerful voice is a colourful offering of wonderfully complimentary self-produced instrumentation that will keep you coming back for more.

We were turned onto her music by KashJordan, who we interviewed earlier this year. Immediately after hearing the first track, we knew we had to have her for an interview – and we think you’ll find her to be something quite special.

So head over to SWISH’s soundcloud (and check her new sounds), follow her on the Twitters, and then read our interview below!

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EN: First I’d like to say thanks for doing this! I’ll move right into the questions. Do you produce all your tracks yourself? If you do, what’s your audio program of choice to work on?

SWISH: Yeah, I produce all my tracks on Logic.

EN: How long ago did you start making your own music?

SWISH: I’ve been writing since I was 5. I remember the first time I wrote a song was this cheesy C-A minor-G-F chord progression on the piano about how shitty my brother was, but I wasn’t serious about it until 6th or 7th grade when I started playing guitar.

EN: That’s awesome [laughs]. I like how it all started with classic sibling hate. Other than guitar and piano, do you play any other instruments?

SWISH: Bass and ukulele are pretty instinctual. I wanna learn how to play the trumpet or flute, but I don’t have enough money to buy an instrument has the potential to end up dusty in the corner of my room.

EN: Do you try and incorporate the live instruments you can play into your production or do you prefer plug-ins and sampling?

SWISH: It just depends on how I’m feeling or what I think will best reflect my vision, but for the most part I use both equally when I produce.

EN: When Kash introduced me to your music he described you as Kanye meets SZA, how do you feel about that comparison, musically?

SWISH: I understand it. I could see where he got Kanye, because all I do is make art and I see myself as a creator. And SZA has this style that is super apparent right now with female singers. It’s so rich and juicy that I can’t help but be a part of myself. The first couple songs I showed Kash were really SZA type songs, but as a singer I feel more connected to Amy Winehouse.

She’s 100% my biggest influence as a singer and I’d like to think it shows. But in my unreleased shit I could definitely see [that
comparison].

EN: It’s funny you mention Amy Winehouse because I was going to ask if she was one of your musical influences. On that topic, who else do you draw inspiration from musically?

SWISH: These days it’s definitely Amy Winehouse and Billie Holiday. It sounds weird, but I used to be super self conscious of the fact that I was a good singer because a lot of people I listened to didn’t need to be good singers because of their lyrical content and whatnot. Every singer I heard had weak lyrics because their voice could do all the work.

I [didn’t] wanna be another singer with weak-ass lyrics, but then I listened to Amy Winehouse’s first album Frank. She’s no Bright Eyes or Kendrick with words but
she could communicate emotion in ways that no other artist could because of what she was vocally capable of. She was so fuckin’ honest, it’s incredible. It changed the way I make music forever.

Billie holiday is just dope. Whenever I listened to her time slows down. She has this one quote that gave me more confidence as a singer too, “if I I’m going to sing like someone else then I shouldn’t sing at all”. That changed me for sure.

EN: When we were checking out your music prior to this interview, our editor pointed right away how prominent your vocals are in your music (unlike some artists who let it sink into the instrumental). Is this a conscious thing you do to make sure you’re properly heard by the listener?

SWISH: I guess that’s a part of it… I think I just denied the singer part of me for a while in fear of being put in a box. I realized how dumb that was because I couldn’t be all that I was, so I couldn’t grow. Now when I sing in my music it feels relieving and free of whatever limitations I or anyone else have tried to enforce on me.

I feel like I’m Julie Andrews on those grass hills in the beginning of sound of music. I guess when I record I can’t help but run for the hills or whatever [laughs]. I just get so caught up sometimes in that feeling.

EN: Do you think it’s harder for women to be respected as writers and lyricists in music? I see a lot of discussion about it being more difficult, especially for artists pushing the boundary of what’s expected.

SWISH: One hundred per-fucking-cent, dude. Yes! I mean, there’s a blatant segregation between male rappers and female rappers. Like if “male rappers” are just “rappers” then what does that make “female rappers”? Like we have to have that female stamp to put us back in our place or some shit. Especiallyin hip-hop, because that shit is fucking bursting at the seams with misogyny.

Plus people just think disrespecting women is cool so off the bat they’ll probably not wanna give me a chance for to gain their respect [musically] as much as they would a man
Also, if you’re a man you can be butt-ass ugly and still be respected. People value women based on their appearance whether they [realize] it or not. Sometimes I think it doesn’t matter at all what kind of dope ideas I have for shit.

Sometimes I think well I’m not fucking Trixie Tang, so there goes my career. Y’know?

EN: Do you ever find motivation from wanting to break these expectations and barriers of what’s expected by female artists?

SWISH: Sometimes. Other times I just don’t give a fuck about it. Like, gender roles play too much of a role in our day-to-day it’s fucking obnoxious and played out. I’m a huge feminist, but it all gets exhausting most of the time. I just wanna be able to exist as the androgynous-ass bitch that I am without having to deal with societal pressures and people being douche-bags.

EN: That’s a respectable approach to it. So if you don’t mind me asking, do you have any plans for any project releases in the future?

SWISH: Yeah, I actually have a whole track list ready, cover art, and music videos planned. I just need to get more resources and more of a reputation before I put this out. It’s too fire to just release to my hundred something followers.

EN: Would you describe it as similar sonically to the releases on your Soundcloud?

SWISH: Nah, it’s nothing like “Just One” or “Warm Milk”… Maybe “Grown Woman”, but I don’t know. The stuff on my Soundcloud was right when I was starting to find out what I was doing. I knew I was about to find what I had been looking for, and I wanted to nurture whatever that was. So I’ve been in my garage for like a year and a half trying to figure out who SWISH is, and just making gold.

The stuff on my Soundcloud you could feel a little something something in every song.. . And I feel like it makes you be like “oh, who’s this SWISH bitch?”, but with this new shit you hear it and you know exactly who SWISH is.

EN: So you believe that you’ve found a sound very definitive of who you are as an artist right now?

SWISH: Definitely.

EN: If you could pick five collaborations with active artists, who would you pick?

SWISH: I’d probably say Chance, Kanye, Kali Uchis, Kaytranada and J. Cole… Thinking about it, I don’t even know what I would do if I got in a studio with any of them… Like, that’s just a crazy thought.

EN: I imagine it’d be quite the experience. Being that your production is quite strong, would you ever consider collaborating in the producers role even if you didn’t appear on the track?

SWISH: Oh yeah, totally. I wanna do that more often actually. I gave this rapper Kwazee a beat today that I’ve been holding onto, and I’m stoked on it. I wanna see my name attached to as many titles as possible, whatever that means. It just feels good to stick your flag in the ground like that with any piece of art.

EN: That’s awesome. To kind of revisit that topic from earlier, it feels like there’s also like… I don’t know how to word this so much, but a distinct lack of female producers especially. Would you agree with that? I know there’s a handful of them, but it seems to be a role that’s particularly male dominated… You’d be like an extension of the first wave of female producers getting into it.

SWISH: Oh hell yeah dude, that shit is wild to me and I can’t really figure out why… Maybe because a lot of the money in women is being the face of an operation rather than behind the scenes. That’s why I like Janet Jackson so much because her production is wild and I know she was pretty involved in that aspect of it.

Janet Jackson is like a female pioneer to me, a huge inspiration. Missy as well.